Discussion:
Gitmo terror suspect convicted of just 1 charge - out of 280
(too old to reply)
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-11-19 14:53:24 UTC
Permalink
This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to prove
that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good old-fashioned civilian
court procedures. All was well until last month, when the district court judge
barred the feds’ blockbuster witness from testifying, even though he was
prepared to tell the jury that he sold Ghailani the explosives used to destroy
the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness’s
identity during enhanced interrogation of Ghailani, and since the interrogation
was deemed illegal, evidence derived from it was inadmissible. Without that
testimony, the case collapsed. And now, a month later, we have a full-blown
fiasco on our hands.

He was the first Gitmo detainee they sent to civilian court. And thanks to
today’s verdict, now he’ll probably be the last.

The defendant, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, 36, was convicted of one count of
conspiracy to destroy government buildings and property. He was acquitted of six
counts of conspiracy, including conspiring to kill Americans and use weapons of
mass destruction.

When the judge’s clerk asked how the jury found on counts 11 to 223, which
were all counts of murder, the jury foreman replied, “Not guilty.”

Mr. Ghailani faces a sentence of 20 years to life in prison…

He helped to buy the Nissan Atlas truck that was used to carry the bomb, and
gas tanks that were placed inside the truck to intensify the blast, the evidence
showed. He also stored an explosive detonator in an armoire he used, and his
cellphone became the “operational phone” for the plotters in the weeks leading
up to the attacks, prosecutors said.

The defense claimed he was just a dopey errand boy in Al Qaeda’s sinister plot,
even though he allegedly served as a bodyguard for the jihadi-in-chief himself.
The Times piece tries to put a happy face on this for the White House, noting
that the court sided with the feds in rulings before the trial that detention at
Gitmo didn’t violate Ghailani’s right to a speedy trial and that enhanced
interrogation didn’t warrant dismissal of the charges. In theory, that clears
the way for trying other terrorists in civilian court. But in practice, it’s
purely academic: Ain’t no way, no how, no chance the DOJ will risk an acquittal
by bringing another high-ranking terrorist to trial in a district court. They
might do it for no-name operatives, where the fallout from a “not guilty”
verdict wouldn’t be totally disastrous, but the great national debate about
whether to try KSM in a military court or in Manhattan is now well and truly
over. In case it wasn’t already.

Over at Ace’s site, DrewM is aghast that the DOJ has released a statement
claiming that they’re “pleased” with Ghailani’s conviction on just one of the
hundreds of counts against him. Yeah, of course that’s mostly face-saving spin —
but not entirely. If he had walked, Obama would now be in the excruciating
position of having to decide whether to let him go, which would be an utter
political disaster, or to re-arrest him and hold him on some sort of preventive
detention grounds, which would be a civil libertarian nightmare (and a political
disaster among his base). This, in a nutshell, is why they now favor simply
leaving KSM in legal limbo and not trying him anywhere — because, even in a
military tribunal, there’s at least a (very) small chance that he’ll be
acquitted and Obama will face this same impossible dilemma on an epic scale. I’d
love to be a fly on the wall in Holder’s office right now.

http://tinyurl.com/2drpdrz

Another embarrassing black eye for Obama... And for Justice. Obama just got
"lucky" that the terror suspect was at least convicted of ONE charge... And this
they put on a happy face about! the other 280 charges... Oh well... Right Libs?

Can't wait for the KSM trial to start in New York? What? It's been postponed
until after 2012 election? What a shock! Well, at least by then the troops
will be home from that Afghan hell right? What? No? 2014 at the earliest?
What about the promises? What will the Anti-War protesters say now? If their
convictions are real, and not politically motivated, they will turn on Obama
just as viciously as they did on Bush should be an interesting 2 years for
Obama...

Just saying...

Now, what say you?

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike
2010-11-19 15:59:35 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:

> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
> when the district court judge barred the feds’ blockbuster witness from
> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness’s identity during
> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,

Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture. You fascists blew
your own case by torturing the suspects and witnesses. Don't blame
Obama. That happened on your watch.
What is your claim? That the prosecution wasn't able to use illegally
obtained evidence against the defendant?
Tell you what, I'll put your fingers in a meat grinder and give it a few
turns to see if I can get you to admit your participation in the flight
800 bombing. I bet you'll be an easy case, whiteboy.

Get the drift?
Wise up, stupid.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-11-24 13:26:46 UTC
Permalink
On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
<***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>
>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>
>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.

Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
torture... Besides if you had a fella in custody that you suspected might have
more information about an imminent massive terrorist attack, wouldnt' you use
whatever means necessary to gain that information to save innocent lives?

>You fascists blew
>your own case by torturing the suspects and witnesses.

Conservaties are not fascist... Fascists are for bigger government control over
the people, Conservaties are for smaller, less intrusive government. Fascists
are Socialists with different banners.

> Don't blame
>Obama. That happened on your watch.
>What is your claim? That the prosecution wasn't able to use illegally
>obtained evidence against the defendant?

Waterboarding is not torture...

>Tell you what, I'll put your fingers in a meat grinder and give it a few
>turns to see if I can get you to admit your participation in the flight
>800 bombing. I bet you'll be an easy case, whiteboy.

What you describe is torture. Waterboarding is not torture.

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-11-24 14:03:06 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>
>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>
>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>
>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>torture...
>

Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
know what your opinion of it is then.

>
>Besides if you had a fella in custody that you suspected might have
>more information about an imminent massive terrorist attack, wouldnt' you use
>whatever means necessary to gain that information to save innocent lives?
>

If it's "imminent", then by the time you get them to Gitmo it's past.

>
>Waterboarding is not torture...
>

Horseshit.

>
>>Tell you what, I'll put your fingers in a meat grinder and give it a few
>>turns to see if I can get you to admit your participation in the flight
>>800 bombing. I bet you'll be an easy case, whiteboy.
>
>What you describe is torture. Waterboarding is not torture.
>

Sign a waiver and find some way to get me immunity from prosecution if
you should accidentally check out and I bet I can demonstrate it to
you in a way that will convince you otherwise.

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-11-29 13:55:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>
>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>
>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>
>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>torture...
>>
>
>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>know what your opinion of it is then.

It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
needing to be verified...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-11-29 14:04:29 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>
>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>
>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>torture...
>>>
>>
>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>
>
>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>needing to be verified...
>

As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
you've been through the procedure.

So by your lights it's not torture so long as no body parts are
removed? Good to know...

--
"Oooo, scary! Y'know, there are a lot scarier things
in the world than you ... and I'm one of them."

-- Buffy the vampire
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-01 14:06:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>>
>>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>>
>>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>>torture...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>>
>>
>>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>>needing to be verified...
>>
>
>As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
>you've been through the procedure.
>

Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, and the information gleaned saved
lives...

>So by your lights it's not torture so long as no body parts are
>removed? Good to know...

You know what I mean.

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-01 14:26:20 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>>>
>>>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>>>torture...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>>>
>>>
>>>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>>>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>>>needing to be verified...
>>>
>>
>>As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
>>you've been through the procedure.
>>
>
>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>

Liar.

>
>... and the information gleaned saved lives...
>

So your view is that the end justifies the means and that morals are
relative? Good to know.

>
>>So by your lights it's not torture so long as no body parts are
>>removed? Good to know...
>
>You know what I mean.
>

No, Ray. I have to take you at what you actually say, not what you
wish you had said or want to deny later.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-06 20:37:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 07:26:20 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>>>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>>>>torture...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>>>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>>>>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>>>>needing to be verified...
>>>>
>>>
>>>As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
>>>you've been through the procedure.
>>>
>>
>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>
>
>Liar.

God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html

Now, who's the liar?

>
>>
>>... and the information gleaned saved lives...
>>
>
>So your view is that the end justifies the means and that morals are
>relative? Good to know.

If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare, firing
shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the deeper
meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an obvious
dirtbag to save many innocent lives?



>>>So by your lights it's not torture so long as no body parts are
>>>removed? Good to know...
>>
>>You know what I mean.
>>
>
>No, Ray. I have to take you at what you actually say, not what you
>wish you had said or want to deny later.

I'm sorry, I thought I was debating someone intelligent...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-07 01:30:05 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 07:26:20 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>>>>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>>>>>torture...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>>>>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>>>>>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>>>>>needing to be verified...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
>>>>you've been through the procedure.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>
>>
>>Liar.
>
>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>
>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>
>Now, who's the liar?
>

You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
it carefully.

>>
>>>
>>>... and the information gleaned saved lives...
>>>
>>
>>So your view is that the end justifies the means and that morals are
>>relative? Good to know.
>
>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare, firing
>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the deeper
>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an obvious
>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>

It's not the same thing at all.

>>>>So by your lights it's not torture so long as no body parts are
>>>>removed? Good to know...
>>>
>>>You know what I mean.
>>>
>>
>>No, Ray. I have to take you at what you actually say, not what you
>>wish you had said or want to deny later.
>
>I'm sorry, I thought I was debating someone intelligent...
>

'Thought' is what you don't do, Ray. You should actually try it
sometime. You might find the change refreshing. I know the rest of
us would.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-07 13:46:42 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:30:05 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 07:26:20 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>>>>>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>>>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>>>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>>>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>>>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>>>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>>>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>>>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>>>>>>torture...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>>>>>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>>>>>>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>>>>>>needing to be verified...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
>>>>>you've been through the procedure.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>
>>>
>>>Liar.
>>
>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>
>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>
>>Now, who's the liar?
>>
>
>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>it carefully.

Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
protect America. And I did."

Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
looking foolish!

>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare, firing
>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the deeper
>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an obvious
>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>
>
>It's not the same thing at all.
>

It's exactly the same thing... Lives are at risk, you have a chance to
intervene, do you... OR do you sit and contemplate which way the political wind
is blowing and how you can spin your response before you act?

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-07 14:22:21 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:30:05 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 07:26:20 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:29 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:03:06 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On 19 Nov 2010 15:59:35 GMT, "Jesus Fucking H. Christ on a Bike"
>>>>>>>>><***@JFHCOAB.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 09:53:24 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>>>>>>>>> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
>>>>>>>>>>> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last month,
>>>>>>>>>>> when the district court judge barred the feds? blockbuster witness from
>>>>>>>>>>> testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury that he sold
>>>>>>>>>>> Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in
>>>>>>>>>>> 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness?s identity during
>>>>>>>>>>> enhanced interrogation of Ghailani,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Enhanced interrogation is a euphemism for torture.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Waterboarding is not torture... Not in the sense of pulling out fingernails is
>>>>>>>>>torture...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bullshit. Get back to me when you've BEEN waterboarded and let us
>>>>>>>>know what your opinion of it is then.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner is perfectly fine... All
>>>>>>>fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed, etc... Some information gleaned, and
>>>>>>>needing to be verified...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As I said, perhaps you should get back to us with your opinion once
>>>>>>you've been through the procedure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Liar.
>>>
>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>
>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>
>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>
>>
>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>it carefully.
>
>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>protect America. And I did."
>
>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>looking foolish!
>

Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.

>>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare, firing
>>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the deeper
>>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an obvious
>>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>>
>>
>>It's not the same thing at all.
>>
>
>It's exactly the same thing... Lives are at risk, you have a chance to
>intervene, do you... OR do you sit and contemplate which way the political wind
>is blowing and how you can spin your response before you act?
>

Nope. One is preventing direct action. The other is a case larded
with 'may' and 'might', as in "This guy MAY have information that
MIGHT prevent deaths and MAYBE I can get it via torture and PERHAPS it
will be in time IF he actually knows anything."

You might do something heinous some day, so I should just shoot you
now. It's your logic. Talk me out of it.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-07 15:38:40 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 07:22:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>

Snip - waterboarding

>>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Liar.
>>>>
>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>
>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>
>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>
>>>
>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>it carefully.
>>
>>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>>protect America. And I did."
>>
>>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>>looking foolish!
>>
>
>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>

I gave you a primary source quote from President Bush himself... Cheney says
the same thing... So does the CIA... Do your homework!

Snip

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-08 01:21:13 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 07:22:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>
>Snip - waterboarding
>
>>>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Liar.
>>>>>
>>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>>it carefully.
>>>
>>>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>>>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>>>protect America. And I did."
>>>
>>>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>>>looking foolish!
>>>
>>
>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>
>
>I gave you a primary source quote from President Bush himself... Cheney says
>the same thing... So does the CIA... Do your homework!
>

Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.

--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-08 02:55:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:21:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 07:22:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>
>>
>>Snip - waterboarding
>>
>>>>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Liar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>>>it carefully.
>>>>
>>>>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>>>>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>>>>protect America. And I did."
>>>>
>>>>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>>>>looking foolish!
>>>>
>>>
>>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>>
>>
>>I gave you a primary source quote from President Bush himself... Cheney says
>>the same thing... So does the CIA... Do your homework!
>>
>
>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.

I did something I always do and you might one day try too... It's called
"homework"... See, I did a thing called "research" and found "primary sources"
to back up my "opinion" with a thing called "Irrefutable FACTS"

Doing this bolsters your argument no end! Facts are facts... and cannot be
disputed... Unless the person your debating is a complete moron!

It's just how I roll...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-08 03:51:45 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:21:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 07:22:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>Snip - waterboarding
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Liar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>>>>it carefully.
>>>>>
>>>>>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>>>>>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>>>>>protect America. And I did."
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>>>>>looking foolish!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I gave you a primary source quote from President Bush himself... Cheney says
>>>the same thing... So does the CIA... Do your homework!
>>>
>>
>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>
>I did something I always do and you might one day try too... It's called
>"homework"... See, I did a thing called "research" and found "primary sources"
>to back up my "opinion" with a thing called "Irrefutable FACTS"
>

Sure you do. Yet the one thing you cited doesn't say quite what you
claim it does, so I certainly wouldn't trust your unsupported claims
about what people have said.

>
>Doing this bolsters your argument no end! Facts are facts... and cannot be
>disputed... Unless the person your debating is a complete moron!
>
>It's just how I roll...
>

Yes, we've noticed that you roll as a complete moron.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-09 16:42:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:51:45 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:21:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 07:22:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Snip - waterboarding
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Liar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>>>>>it carefully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>>>>>>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>>>>>>protect America. And I did."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>>>>>>looking foolish!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>>>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I gave you a primary source quote from President Bush himself... Cheney says
>>>>the same thing... So does the CIA... Do your homework!
>>>>
>>>
>>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>
>>I did something I always do and you might one day try too... It's called
>>"homework"... See, I did a thing called "research" and found "primary sources"
>>to back up my "opinion" with a thing called "Irrefutable FACTS"
>>
>
>Sure you do. Yet the one thing you cited doesn't say quite what you
>claim it does, so I certainly wouldn't trust your unsupported claims
>about what people have said.
>
>>
>>Doing this bolsters your argument no end! Facts are facts... and cannot be
>>disputed... Unless the person your debating is a complete moron!
>>
>>It's just how I roll...
>>
>
>Yes, we've noticed that you roll as a complete moron.

I bow at the feet of the master of morondom!

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-10 03:06:58 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 20:51:45 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 18:21:13 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Tue, 07 Dec 2010 07:22:21 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Snip - waterboarding
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Only 3 Jihadists had this done to them, ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Liar.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>>>>>>it carefully.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe that
>>>>>>>decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job was to
>>>>>>>protect America. And I did."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and stop
>>>>>>>looking foolish!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>>>>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I gave you a primary source quote from President Bush himself... Cheney says
>>>>>the same thing... So does the CIA... Do your homework!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Note that that isn't what your cite says. I wouldn't trust you to
>>>>quote someone correctly if it was tattooed on your eyeballs.
>>>
>>>I did something I always do and you might one day try too... It's called
>>>"homework"... See, I did a thing called "research" and found "primary sources"
>>>to back up my "opinion" with a thing called "Irrefutable FACTS"
>>>
>>
>>Sure you do. Yet the one thing you cited doesn't say quite what you
>>claim it does, so I certainly wouldn't trust your unsupported claims
>>about what people have said.
>>
>>>
>>>Doing this bolsters your argument no end! Facts are facts... and cannot be
>>>disputed... Unless the person your debating is a complete moron!
>>>
>>>It's just how I roll...
>>>
>>
>>Yes, we've noticed that you roll as a complete moron.
>
>I bow at the feet of the master of morondom!
>

Yes, I bet that you do.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-09 17:06:38 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:30:05 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
[snip]
>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>
>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>
>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>
>>
>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>it carefully.
>
> Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe
> that
> decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job
> was to
> protect America. And I did."
>
> Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and
> stop
> looking foolish!

Christian theology sayd one can not commit evil in order to do good.
Furthermore you have been shown that your reference does not say what you
claim it does.
also, look up "shifting the burden" under logical fallacy.
If you claim something it is for you to provide the evidence toi support it.

>
>>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare,
>>>firing
>>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the
>>>deeper
>>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an obvious
>>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>>
>>
>>It's not the same thing at all.
>>
>
> It's exactly the same thing...

No it isnt! Stopping a tyerrorist in the commission of a mass murder and
arresting and torturing an Afghan farmer on suspiscion of terrorism are not
the same thing. Over 700 incarcerated by the US in concentration camps. Of
the top suspects they charge one with hundreds of charges and only get one
charge to stick! What about the other 700 they imprisioned without trial?
How isnt that any different from internment without trial of suspect IRA?

> Lives are at risk, you have a chance to
> intervene, do you... OR do you sit and contemplate which way the political
> wind
> is blowing and how you can spin your response before you act?
>
So you agree the British Army had the right to torture suspect IRA members?
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-09 17:33:47 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:06:38 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme>
wrote:


Jesus it's another one back from the grave! What is it with this week? One
could almost imagine that the same person is using 3 different nyms to post...
But that would be silly to claim! ;-)

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:30:05 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>[snip]
>>>>God, and you do be calling O'Hara uninformed... Read it and learn:
>>>>
>>>>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/exclusive-only-.html
>>>>
>>>>Now, who's the liar?
>>>>
>>>
>>>You are, and stupid into the bargain. Go read your own cite and parse
>>>it carefully.
>>
>> Look, it's very simple: "Three people were waterboarded and I believe
>> that
>> decision saved lives," Bush said in an interview with NBC News. "My job
>> was to
>> protect America. And I did."
>>
>> Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and
>> stop
>> looking foolish!
>
>Christian theology sayd one can not commit evil in order to do good.

Taking action to save the greater innocent from the actions of a evil doer is
ok... Otherwise police could never intervene in a crime... By your standards
they must stand about chatting about the latest football results until the
criminal has finished his raping and murdering of the innocent victims... Get
with it!


>>>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare,
>>>>firing
>>>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the
>>>>deeper
>>>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an obvious
>>>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>>>
>>>
>>>It's not the same thing at all.
>>>
>>
>> It's exactly the same thing...
>
> No it isnt! Stopping a tyerrorist in the commission of a mass murder and
>arresting and torturing an Afghan farmer on suspiscion of terrorism are not
>the same thing.

Afghan farmer... Yes the Allies are running mills where they torture hundreds of
thousands of afghan farmers... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
warterboarded... And you still whine about it? As a friend of mine put it
recently... People like you, on the Titanic, would be cheering for the iceberg!

>Over 700 incarcerated by the US in concentration camps.

Ah... So cute... Concentration camps where they have flat screen tv's and
personalized diet supplements... Yes... Just like the Nazi camps so they are!
FFS!! drop that crap... It's a blatant lie!

>Of the top suspects they charge one with hundreds of charges and only get one
>charge to stick! What about the other 700 they imprisioned without trial?
>How isnt that any different from internment without trial of suspect IRA?
>

Dont' get on my back mate! Get on Obamas! He was the one that promised to
close Camp Gitmo! He was the one that promised to pull the troops out.... YET
Gitmo remains open... The troops got a surge! And Obama has increased the drone
attacks... Get him! He's the "terrorist" murdering all those innocent afghan
farmers!

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-09 18:56:48 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:06:38 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
> <***@nospam.forme>
> wrote:
>
>
> Jesus it's another one back from the grave! What is it with this week?
> One
> could almost imagine that the same person is using 3 different nyms to
> post...
> But that would be silly to claim! ;-)
If you look you might notice I posted a month ago on rememberance day in
Novermber ! :)

And I posted before on this subject but apparently you only noticed it just
now.


>
[snip]
>>>
>>> Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and
>>> stop
>>> looking foolish!
>>
>>Christian theology sayd one can not commit evil in order to do good.
>
> Taking action to save the greater innocent from the actions of a evil doer
> is
> ok...

Incarcerating innocent people and torturing them is not " taking action
against an evil action" !

> Otherwise police could never intervene in a crime...

rubbish! The Police should always act withing the law! Otherwise they are no
better than the terrorists! THe US and British Military have been shown
acting against the law.


>By your standards
> they must stand about chatting about the latest football results until the
> criminal has finished his raping and murdering of the innocent victims...
> Get
> with it!

It is cvalled "assumption of innocence" Get with it! You appear to rthink
the British and US Army are justified in torturing suspect terrorists.


>
>>>>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare,
>>>>>firing
>>>>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the
>>>>>deeper
>>>>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an
>>>>>obvious
>>>>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's not the same thing at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's exactly the same thing...
>>
>> No it isnt! Stopping a tyerrorist in the commission of a mass murder and
>>arresting and torturing an Afghan farmer on suspiscion of terrorism are
>>not
>>the same thing.
>
> Afghan farmer... Yes the Allies are running mills where they torture
> hundreds of
> thousands of afghan farmers

That arrested thousanbds and hundreds were imprisioned in GITMO without
trial! FACT!


... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
> warterboarded...

Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?


> And you still whine about it?

I am copmplaining about people being locked uyp without trial whether Iraqui
Iranian Afghan or Irish! You cant claim to support freedomn and also claim
to support torture of suspect terrorists and imprisionment without trial!

>As a friend of mine put it
> recently... People like you, on the Titanic, would be cheering for the
> iceberg!

Sadly the example is of someone cheering after the damage is done and the
perpitrator clearly visible. the inceration and torture of suspects
staisifies neither criteria.


>>Over 700 incarcerated by the US in concentration camps.
>
> Ah... So cute... Concentration camps where they have flat screen tv's and
> personalized diet supplements...

Concen tration camp = people of similar ethnic religious tribal background
incarcrated in large numbers. AS begun by the Brits to the Boers.
How do you know about the TVs anyway?



> Yes... Just like the Nazi camps so they are!
> FFS!! drop that crap... It's a blatant lie!

Inceration of similar peoples without trial is just like the Germans ( to
Jews and Gypsies etc. ) US ( done in WWII) Or Brits in The Boer War.

Concentration camps and extermination camps are different.


>>Of the top suspects they charge one with hundreds of charges and only get
>>one
>>charge to stick! What about the other 700 they imprisioned without trial?
>>How isnt that any different from internment without trial of suspect IRA?
>>
>
> Dont' get on my back mate! Get on Obamas! He was the one that promised
> to
> close Camp Gitmo!

Answer the question! How isnt that any different from internment without
trial of suspect IRA?

Unlike you i am prepared to criticise bith Obama and Bush and anything that
is against human rights.

> He was the one that promised to pull the troops out....

That have left Iraq!

>YET
> Gitmo remains open... The troops got a surge!


The surge was under Bush! At least Obama pulled out of Iraq.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-09 19:40:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 18:56:48 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:06:38 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
>> <***@nospam.forme>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jesus it's another one back from the grave! What is it with this week?
>> One
>> could almost imagine that the same person is using 3 different nyms to
>> post...
>> But that would be silly to claim! ;-)
>If you look you might notice I posted a month ago on rememberance day in
>Novermber ! :)
>
>And I posted before on this subject but apparently you only noticed it just
>now.
>

Now your just teasing me :)

>
>>
>[snip]
>>>>
>>>> Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and
>>>> stop
>>>> looking foolish!
>>>
>>>Christian theology sayd one can not commit evil in order to do good.
>>
>> Taking action to save the greater innocent from the actions of a evil doer
>> is
>> ok...
>
>Incarcerating innocent people and torturing them is not " taking action
>against an evil action" !
>

Innocent? Caught on the battlefield of Afghanistan? Terrorists who have been
tracked for 2 years dreaming of blowing up innocent people at a Christmas Tree
Lightening ceremony? Innocent?



>> Otherwise police could never intervene in a crime...
>
>rubbish! The Police should always act withing the law! Otherwise they are no
>better than the terrorists! THe US and British Military have been shown
>acting against the law.
>

Laws are subject to change... If the law is passed that a cop can kill a fella
because he looks "strange" is that ok? NO! Same thing applies...


>
>>By your standards
>> they must stand about chatting about the latest football results until the
>> criminal has finished his raping and murdering of the innocent victims...
>> Get
>> with it!
>
>It is cvalled "assumption of innocence" Get with it! You appear to rthink
>the British and US Army are justified in torturing suspect terrorists.

Terrorist suspects who the government believe to have vital information with
regard to an imminent terrorist attack... Yeah... Torture the bastard... Better
him then the 30 innocent women and children that are victims of another
terrorist had we not "had a chat" with him...


>>>>>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare,
>>>>>>firing
>>>>>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the
>>>>>>deeper
>>>>>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an
>>>>>>obvious
>>>>>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's not the same thing at all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's exactly the same thing...
>>>
>>> No it isnt! Stopping a tyerrorist in the commission of a mass murder and
>>>arresting and torturing an Afghan farmer on suspiscion of terrorism are
>>>not
>>>the same thing.
>>
>> Afghan farmer... Yes the Allies are running mills where they torture
>> hundreds of
>> thousands of afghan farmers
>
>That arrested thousanbds and hundreds were imprisioned in GITMO without
>trial! FACT!
>

LOL! 490! And Nobama is trying his damn best to offload them to other countries
and yet... They refuse to take them! Why is that? Could it be the 25% repeat
offender rate? Hardly! Or could it?

>
>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>> warterboarded...
>
>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>

Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many... What evidence do yo to claim
otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...


Snip - I've seen you with Telmey!

>> Ah... So cute... Concentration camps where they have flat screen tv's and
>> personalized diet supplements...
>
>Concen tration camp = people of similar ethnic religious tribal background
>incarcrated in large numbers. AS begun by the Brits to the Boers.
>How do you know about the TVs anyway?

How do you know about the so called concentration camps? For that matter!


>> Yes... Just like the Nazi camps so they are!
>> FFS!! drop that crap... It's a blatant lie!
>
>Inceration of similar peoples without trial is just like the Germans ( to
>Jews and Gypsies etc. ) US ( done in WWII) Or Brits in The Boer War.
>
>Concentration camps and extermination camps are different.
>

Oh... so nice of you to draw that distinction... I was just about to do that...
As well yo know... Else you'd not have drawn it...


>
>>>Of the top suspects they charge one with hundreds of charges and only get
>>>one
>>>charge to stick! What about the other 700 they imprisioned without trial?
>>>How isnt that any different from internment without trial of suspect IRA?
>>>
>>
>> Dont' get on my back mate! Get on Obamas! He was the one that promised
>> to
>> close Camp Gitmo!
>
>Answer the question! How isnt that any different from internment without
>trial of suspect IRA?
>
>Unlike you i am prepared to criticise bith Obama and Bush and anything that
>is against human rights.
>

I recently PRAISED Nobama for giving in on extending the BUSH TAX CUTS for
everyone! Nobody flies to the center and throws his support under the bus
like Obama!


>> He was the one that promised to pull the troops out....
>
>That have left Iraq!
>

Really? <smiles>
48 thousand troops remain in Iraq*...

>>YET
>> Gitmo remains open... The troops got a surge!
>
>
>The surge was under Bush! At least Obama pulled out of Iraq.
>

Of course he has! LOL!

And the drone attacks that killed more terrorists then the same drone attacks
under 8 years of Bush... Just a minor inconvenience to you Liberals... You can
over look that... Right?

Ray
(not a Conservative website)
http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-09 22:03:09 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 18:56:48 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
> <***@nospam.forme>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:06:38 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
>>> <***@nospam.forme>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesus it's another one back from the grave! What is it with this
>>> week?
>>> One
>>> could almost imagine that the same person is using 3 different nyms to
>>> post...
>>> But that would be silly to claim! ;-)
>>If you look you might notice I posted a month ago on rememberance day in
>>Novermber ! :)
>>
>>And I posted before on this subject but apparently you only noticed it
>>just
>>now.
>>
>
> Now your just teasing me :)
>
>>
>>>
>>[snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and
>>>>> stop
>>>>> looking foolish!
>>>>
>>>>Christian theology sayd one can not commit evil in order to do good.
>>>
>>> Taking action to save the greater innocent from the actions of a evil
>>> doer
>>> is
>>> ok...
>>
>>Incarcerating innocent people and torturing them is not " taking action
>>against an evil action" !
>>
>
> Innocent?

Yes? Ever heard of the "Justice system" WE do not assume guilt!

> Caught on the battlefield of Afghanistan?

In the sense that the whole countryside was a battlefield? Just like saying
a Catholic farmer in N Ireland is caught on a battlefield and so must be
supporting IRA terrorists?

>Terrorists who have been
> tracked for 2 years

Rubbish! They did not track 700 plus people for two years! And if they didi
why whernt they triede and the evidence presented. In fact people were
rounded up by the Us Military and by others ( local militia who hasnded
people over claiming they were terrorists) many were no doubt innocent and
just farmers. Even after torture there is nothing to charge them with! But
like Bobby Sands and other IRA members or like Qutb ( the mentor of Bin
Laden) torturing them or other cruel and unsusal teratment will no doubt
make them into future terrorists.



> dreaming of blowing up innocent people at a Christmas Tree
> Lightening ceremony? Innocent?

Which of the 700 detainees who were not as yet tried before a court was
planning to blow up people at a Christmas Tree? And what do you say about
similar IRA attacks?



>
>
>
>>> Otherwise police could never intervene in a crime...
>>
>>rubbish! The Police should always act withing the law! Otherwise they are
>>no
>>better than the terrorists! THe US and British Military have been shown
>>acting against the law.
>>
>
> Laws are subject to change...

So what? The police act withing the law. If you change it they act within
the new law.


> If the law is passed that a cop can kill a fella
> because he looks "strange" is that ok? NO! Same thing applies...

Rubbish! The copurt system mitigates the law! A Republic is a democracy
regulated by law. You cant just pass a law for reintroducing slavery (
although GITMO gets near this but it isnt on US soil so the court cant act).
If you were to pass such a majority law the court would rule it out!


>
>
>>
>>>By your standards
>>> they must stand about chatting about the latest football results until
>>> the
>>> criminal has finished his raping and murdering of the innocent
>>> victims...
>>> Get
>>> with it!
>>
>>It is cvalled "assumption of innocence" Get with it! You appear to rthink
>>the British and US Army are justified in torturing suspect terrorists.
>
> Terrorist suspects who the government believe to have vital information
> with
> regard to an imminent terrorist attack... Yeah...

So you do believe the British could torture suyspect IRA members? And ytou
believe the Guildford Four and Birmingham SIx and Annie Mc Guire should have
been trested the way they were because they were suspects!

> Torture the bastard... Better
> him then the 30 innocent women and children that are victims of another
> terrorist had we not "had a chat" with him...

And the B6 G4 and Mc Guire 7 and Gerry Conlon all deserved what thay got
according to you !

Shame on you!
>
>
>>>>>>>If your holding a gun and you see a gunman racing towards a daycare,
>>>>>>>firing
>>>>>>>shots at the kids, would you shoot him or stand around to ponder the
>>>>>>>deeper
>>>>>>>meaning of the moral dilemma presented with taking the life of an
>>>>>>>obvious
>>>>>>>dirtbag to save many innocent lives?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's not the same thing at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It's exactly the same thing...
>>>>
>>>> No it isnt! Stopping a tyerrorist in the commission of a mass murder
>>>> and
>>>>arresting and torturing an Afghan farmer on suspiscion of terrorism are
>>>>not
>>>>the same thing.
>>>
>>> Afghan farmer... Yes the Allies are running mills where they torture
>>> hundreds of
>>> thousands of afghan farmers
>>
>>That arrested thousanbds and hundreds were imprisioned in GITMO without
>>trial! FACT!
>>
>
> LOL! 490!

WRONG! as usual.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-gitmo-20101103,0,2950380.story

[quote nov 3 2010]
Of nearly 800 terrorism suspects brought to this remote U.S. base in
southern Cuba over nearly nine years, 174 remain, most because of diplomatic
troubles between Washington and their home countries rather than out of
concern they would pose a security threat if freed.
[end quote]

>And Nobama is trying his damn best to offload them to other countries
> and yet... They refuse to take them! Why is that? Could it be the 25%
> repeat
> offender rate? Hardly! Or could it?

REd herring! The subject is whether they have been shown to be guilty oif
anything. 800 detained for nine years. ONE minor conviction of hundreds of
charges against a single "suspect" !

>
>>
>>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>>> warterboarded...
>>
>>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>>
>
> Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many...


LOL! Just like they claimed

- Loads of WMD in Iraq which they would show us withing days of invading=
untrue
-Saddam treining Al Quada and working with them in world terror = untrue

the CIA claimed Ghadaffi was building missile silos in Libya when
Halliburton was b uilding aquafers there on a fat contract!

>What evidence do yo to claim
> otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...

What piles of illogical shite you construct!

YOU CLAIMED IT! It is for you to prove it! Look up "shifting the burden"
under logical fallacy!


> Snip - I've seen you with Telmey!

Look up "ad hominem " while you are at it! It is another fallacy!
Whn ytou are clearly losing the arguiment do you always resort to attacking
the person instead!


>
>>> Ah... So cute... Concentration camps where they have flat screen tv's
>>> and
>>> personalized diet supplements...
>>
>>Concen tration camp = people of similar ethnic religious tribal background
>>incarcrated in large numbers. AS begun by the Brits to the Boers.
>>How do you know about the TVs anyway?
>
> How do you know about the so called concentration camps? For that matter!

Evasion noted! WEhen you take about 800 people of the same religion and move
them to the far side of the world and concentrate them in one camp what
would you call it? A holiday camp?

>
>
>>> Yes... Just like the Nazi camps so they are!
>>> FFS!! drop that crap... It's a blatant lie!
>>
>>Inceration of similar peoples without trial is just like the Germans ( to
>>Jews and Gypsies etc. ) US ( done in WWII) Or Brits in The Boer War.
>>
>>Concentration camps and extermination camps are different.
>>
>
> Oh... so nice of you to draw that distinction... I was just about to do
> that...
> As well yo know... Else you'd not have drawn it...

Look up "argument fropm ignorance" as well. It is another fallacy.
The fact that is itsnt an extermination camp does not negate it being a
concentration camp.
There were thousands of German concentration camps but relatively few
extermination camps.

>
>
>>
>>>>Of the top suspects they charge one with hundreds of charges and only
>>>>get
>>>>one
>>>>charge to stick! What about the other 700 they imprisioned without
>>>>trial?
>>>>How isnt that any different from internment without trial of suspect
>>>>IRA?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Dont' get on my back mate! Get on Obamas! He was the one that promised
>>> to
>>> close Camp Gitmo!
>>
>>Answer the question! How isnt that any different from internment without
>>trial of suspect IRA?
>>
>>Unlike you i am prepared to criticise bith Obama and Bush and anything
>>that
>>is against human rights.
>>
>
> I recently PRAISED Nobama

Answer the question! How is that any different from internment without
trial of suspect IRA?



>
>
>>> He was the one that promised to pull the troops out....
>>
>>That have left Iraq!
>>
>
> Really? <smiles>
> 48 thousand troops remain in Iraq*...


As of August 2009, all non-U.S. coalition members had withdrawn from Iraq

United States Forces - Iraq does not have responsibility for, nor control
of, any ground in Iraq. Its mission is limited to defense and security
cooperation only.

It is there at the behest of the Iraqi government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Forces_%E2%80%93_Iraq#Command_merger_background
As of 1 January 2009, the Iraqi Government is fully responsible, through
its security ministries, for maintaining and providing security and rule of
law for its people. Furthermore, as of 28 June 2009, no foreign forces are
stationed within any of Iraq's major cities. The United States decided after
negotiations to cease combat operations, that is, patrolling, serving arrest
warrants, route clearance, etc., within Iraq by 1 September 2010, and
transition to a pure advise, train and assist role. The changing mission
entails major troop reductions; from 115,000 on 15 December 2009, to 50,000
by 1 September 2010, and to zero by 31 December 2011.
[end quote]

>
>>>YET
>>> Gitmo remains open... The troops got a surge!
>>
>>
>>The surge was under Bush! At least Obama pulled out of Iraq.
>>
>
> Of course he has! LOL!

Fact. Nothing funny about it! Bush lost the plot and tried to shore up the
failure with a surge. Obama pulled them all out.

>
> And the drone attacks that killed more terrorists then the same drone
> attacks
> under 8 years of Bush... Just a minor inconvenience to you Liberals... You
> can
> over look that... Right?

Where do you get the idea I am liberal.

I signed on for eleven years and saw some active service. How much border
duty did Bush do with the excepotion of overflying the Mexican border?:)
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-14 16:03:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:03:09 -0000, "Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 18:56:48 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
>> <***@nospam.forme>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>>> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 17:06:38 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
>>>> <***@nospam.forme>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesus it's another one back from the grave! What is it with this
>>>> week?
>>>> One
>>>> could almost imagine that the same person is using 3 different nyms to
>>>> post...
>>>> But that would be silly to claim! ;-)
>>>If you look you might notice I posted a month ago on rememberance day in
>>>Novermber ! :)
>>>
>>>And I posted before on this subject but apparently you only noticed it
>>>just
>>>now.
>>>
>>
>> Now your just teasing me :)
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now, unless you have evidence to contradict the President, shut up and
>>>>>> stop
>>>>>> looking foolish!
>>>>>
>>>>>Christian theology sayd one can not commit evil in order to do good.
>>>>
>>>> Taking action to save the greater innocent from the actions of a evil
>>>> doer
>>>> is
>>>> ok...
>>>
>>>Incarcerating innocent people and torturing them is not " taking action
>>>against an evil action" !
>>>
>>
>> Innocent?
>
>Yes? Ever heard of the "Justice system" WE do not assume guilt!
>
>> Caught on the battlefield of Afghanistan?
>
>In the sense that the whole countryside was a battlefield? Just like saying
>a Catholic farmer in N Ireland is caught on a battlefield and so must be
>supporting IRA terrorists?

There is no comparison and I refuse to debate any comparison.

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-15 13:35:05 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 22:03:09 -0000, "Mavisbeacon"
> <***@nospam.forme>
> wrote:
>
>>
[snip]
>>>>Incarcerating innocent people and torturing them is not " taking action
>>>>against an evil action" !
>>>>
>>>
>>> Innocent?
>>
>>Yes? Ever heard of the "Justice system" WE do not assume guilt!
>>
>>> Caught on the battlefield of Afghanistan?
>>
>>In the sense that the whole countryside was a battlefield? Just like
>>saying
>>a Catholic farmer in N Ireland is caught on a battlefield and so must be
>>supporting IRA terrorists?
>
> There is no comparison and I refuse to debate any comparison.
>
> Ray

You do know what a Bigot is ray?

Obviously you did not see this last night? (which shows how the "War" is
about controlling money) :
http://www.johnpilger.com/articles/new-pilger-film-the-war-you-don-t-see-currently-showing-in-uk-cinemas

http://www.newint.org/features/2010/12/01/john-pilger-interview/

Here educate yourself : http://www.documentary-film.net/

Try
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
or
The Take Over Of South Americia

or the power of nightmares
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
conwaycaine
2010-12-15 14:36:18 UTC
Permalink
"Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme> wrote in message
news:ad839$4d08c585$bc8d6b20$***@news.upc.ie...
> "WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
> You do know what a Bigot is ray?

No, I didn't know that.
Are you remembering some quote from yesteryear???
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-10 04:05:07 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>
>Terrorist suspects who the government believe to have vital information with
>regard to an imminent terrorist attack... Yeah... Torture the bastard... Better
>him then the 30 innocent women and children that are victims of another
>terrorist had we not "had a chat" with him...
>

And just what's your position when you follow that path and the fellow
didn't know anything or there was no 'vital information'? It's ok to
have tortured him, since he's only a raghead, after all?

So you understand why the Brits treated IRA suspects the way they did
and it was ok, was it?

>
>>
>>>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>>> warterboarded...
>>
>>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>>
>
>Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many... What evidence do yo to claim
>otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...
>

Your CIA cite didn't say quite what you seem to have read. I wouldn't
believe your claims about what anyone else said, given your record of
failing to understand things.


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-12 21:47:06 UTC
Permalink
"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
> So you understand why the Brits treated IRA suspects the way they did
> and it was ok, was it?
>
>>
>>>
>>>>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>>>> warterboarded...
>>>
>>>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>>>
>>
>>Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many... What evidence do yo to claim
>>otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...
>>
>
> Your CIA cite didn't say quite what you seem to have read. I wouldn't
> believe your claims about what anyone else said, given your record of
> failing to understand things.
>
>
Not alone that it contradicts his original position in SCI as far as i know.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-14 16:03:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 21:05:07 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>
>>Terrorist suspects who the government believe to have vital information with
>>regard to an imminent terrorist attack... Yeah... Torture the bastard... Better
>>him then the 30 innocent women and children that are victims of another
>>terrorist had we not "had a chat" with him...
>>
>
>And just what's your position when you follow that path and the fellow
>didn't know anything or there was no 'vital information'? It's ok to
>have tortured him, since he's only a raghead, after all?
>

Would you rather that or have to apologize to the hundreds of dead, maimed and
their families because you were out to protect the terrorists rights... Their
rights were sacrificed on the altar of Political Correctness?


>So you understand why the Brits treated IRA suspects the way they did
>and it was ok, was it?
>

False comparison... Rejected.


>>
>>>
>>>>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>>>> warterboarded...
>>>
>>>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>>>
>>
>>Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many... What evidence do yo to claim
>>otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...
>>
>
>Your CIA cite didn't say quite what you seem to have read. I wouldn't
>believe your claims about what anyone else said, given your record of
>failing to understand things.

You rejected the first source - I supplied direct quotes that support my
assertion and you could have googled them and found I was correct, but you can't
be bothered, so I can't be bothered to debate you on something your too lazy to
do homework on.

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-15 01:50:27 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 21:05:07 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Terrorist suspects who the government believe to have vital information with
>>>regard to an imminent terrorist attack... Yeah... Torture the bastard... Better
>>>him then the 30 innocent women and children that are victims of another
>>>terrorist had we not "had a chat" with him...
>>>
>>
>>And just what's your position when you follow that path and the fellow
>>didn't know anything or there was no 'vital information'? It's ok to
>>have tortured him, since he's only a raghead, after all?
>>
>
>Would you rather that or have to apologize to the hundreds of dead, maimed and
>their families because you were out to protect the terrorists rights... Their
>rights were sacrificed on the altar of Political Correctness?
>

Political correctness my ass! You want us to BECOME the enemy. I'd
rather not, thanks.

>
>>So you understand why the Brits treated IRA suspects the way they did
>>and it was ok, was it?
>>
>
>False comparison... Rejected.
>

What's the difference between the two?

>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>>>>> warterboarded...
>>>>
>>>>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many... What evidence do yo to claim
>>>otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...
>>>
>>
>>Your CIA cite didn't say quite what you seem to have read. I wouldn't
>>believe your claims about what anyone else said, given your record of
>>failing to understand things.
>
>You rejected the first source - I supplied direct quotes that support my
>assertion and you could have googled them and found I was correct, but you can't
>be bothered, so I can't be bothered to debate you on something your too lazy to
>do homework on.
>

Let's inject a little reality there. Your first cite didn't say what
you claimed. You then CLAIMED that people had said things with no
proof at all that they had done so. Given your inability to read what
is in front of your face, your credibility when it comes to your
ability to quote with any accuracy (or even hear with any) is highly
suspect.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-15 13:39:35 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 21:05:07 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Terrorist suspects who the government believe to have vital information
>>>with
>>>regard to an imminent terrorist attack... Yeah... Torture the bastard...
>>>Better
>>>him then the 30 innocent women and children that are victims of another
>>>terrorist had we not "had a chat" with him...
>>>
>>
>>And just what's your position when you follow that path and the fellow
>>didn't know anything or there was no 'vital information'? It's ok to
>>have tortured him, since he's only a raghead, after all?
>>
>
> Would you rather that or have to apologize to the hundreds of dead, maimed
> and
> their families because you were out to protect the terrorists rights...
> Their
> rights were sacrificed on the altar of Political Correctness?

Don't pick such bad religious comparisons. christ was crusified and
Christians thrown to the lions for the same reasons.


>
>
>>So you understand why the Brits treated IRA suspects the way they did
>>and it was ok, was it?
>>
>
> False comparison... Rejected.


Why is it false? They gave Exactly the reasons you give!

>
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>... 3 people... That's right 3! Were
>>>>> warterboarded...
>>>>
>>>>Prove it was only 3! Can you do that?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Bush, Cheney and the CIA claim that many... What evidence do yo to claim
>>>otherwise? Just saying so... That won't cut it...
>>>
>>
>>Your CIA cite didn't say quite what you seem to have read. I wouldn't
>>believe your claims about what anyone else said, given your record of
>>failing to understand things.
>
> You rejected the first source - I supplied direct quotes that support my
> assertion
Care to Post it again?

>and you could have googled them and found I was correct, but you can't
> be bothered,
Look up "burden of evidence" under "logical fallacy" would you?

>so I can't be bothered to debate you on something your too lazy to
> do homework on.

Oh and "shifting the burden" while you are at it.

:) Not a winning strategy using fallacy Ray.
conwaycaine
2010-12-07 14:26:52 UTC
Permalink
"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>I'm sorry, I thought I was debating someone intelligent...
>>
>
> 'Thought' is what you don't do, Ray. You should actually try it
> sometime. You might find the change refreshing. I know the rest of
> us would.

The all encompassing "We", is it?
Oft used here to indicate widespread support for the user's views.
And equally widespread condemnation of the target's views.
Mixed in with a hint of the imperial "We", as well.
Another good ploy is "The lurkers all support me".
I remember once on sci when the venerable McNeil wrote to me "The universal
contempt and disdain to which we all hold you"
Now there was a Slag King.
The Prince Edward Island scourge, he was.

(I'm wise to your wily tricks, McCall)
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-07 14:30:06 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm sorry, I thought I was debating someone intelligent...
>>>
>>
>> 'Thought' is what you don't do, Ray. You should actually try it
>> sometime. You might find the change refreshing. I know the rest of
>> us would.
>
>The all encompassing "We", is it?
>Oft used here to indicate widespread support for the user's views.
>And equally widespread condemnation of the target's views.
>Mixed in with a hint of the imperial "We", as well.
>Another good ploy is "The lurkers all support me".
>I remember once on sci when the venerable McNeil wrote to me "The universal
>contempt and disdain to which we all hold you"
>Now there was a Slag King.
>The Prince Edward Island scourge, he was.
>
>(I'm wise to your wily tricks, McCall)
>

Typical Stupid Usenet Tricks 101 whinge by Ray.

I accept your surrender.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
conwaycaine
2010-12-07 20:59:30 UTC
Permalink
"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I'm sorry, I thought I was debating someone intelligent...
>>>>
>>>
>>> 'Thought' is what you don't do, Ray. You should actually try it
>>> sometime. You might find the change refreshing. I know the rest of
>>> us would.
>>
>>The all encompassing "We", is it?
>>Oft used here to indicate widespread support for the user's views.
>>And equally widespread condemnation of the target's views.
>>Mixed in with a hint of the imperial "We", as well.
>>Another good ploy is "The lurkers all support me".
>>I remember once on sci when the venerable McNeil wrote to me "The
>>universal
>>contempt and disdain to which we all hold you"
>>Now there was a Slag King.
>>The Prince Edward Island scourge, he was.
>>
>>(I'm wise to your wily tricks, McCall)
>>
>
> Typical Stupid Usenet Tricks 101 whinge by Ray.
>
> I accept your surrender.

I've no sword these days.
The Garda took it from me.................
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-07 21:56:38 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:59:30 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm sorry, I thought I was debating someone intelligent...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'Thought' is what you don't do, Ray. You should actually try it
>>>> sometime. You might find the change refreshing. I know the rest of
>>>> us would.
>>>
>>>The all encompassing "We", is it?
>>>Oft used here to indicate widespread support for the user's views.
>>>And equally widespread condemnation of the target's views.
>>>Mixed in with a hint of the imperial "We", as well.
>>>Another good ploy is "The lurkers all support me".
>>>I remember once on sci when the venerable McNeil wrote to me "The
>>>universal
>>>contempt and disdain to which we all hold you"
>>>Now there was a Slag King.
>>>The Prince Edward Island scourge, he was.
>>>
>>>(I'm wise to your wily tricks, McCall)
>>>
>>
>> Typical Stupid Usenet Tricks 101 whinge by Ray.
>>
>> I accept your surrender.
>
>I've no sword these days.
>The Garda took it from me.................
>

F'n nanny state! :-)

Ray
conwaycaine
2010-12-08 18:11:34 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:59:30 -0500, "conwaycaine"
> <***@bellsouth.net>

>>I've no sword these days.
>>The Garda took it from me.................
>>
>
> F'n nanny state! :-)

Next they will be after me driving license.
Is there to be no end to it??
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-09 16:42:21 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:11:34 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:59:30 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>
>>>I've no sword these days.
>>>The Garda took it from me.................
>>>
>>
>> F'n nanny state! :-)
>
>Next they will be after me driving license.
>Is there to be no end to it??
>

Why did they take your sword BTW?

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
conwaycaine
2010-12-09 18:00:53 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:11:34 -0500, "conwaycaine"
> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:59:30 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>>>I've no sword these days.
>>>>The Garda took it from me.................
>>>>
>>>
>>> F'n nanny state! :-)
>>
>>Next they will be after me driving license.
>>Is there to be no end to it??
>>
>
> Why did they take your sword BTW?

I think it my habit of running about the neighborhood looking for old
dragons to slay.
(We've several here, you know)
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-09 18:02:06 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:00:29 -0500, WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
wrote:

>On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:00:53 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:11:34 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>>
>>>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:59:30 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>>>>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>>
>>>>>>I've no sword these days.
>>>>>>The Garda took it from me.................
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> F'n nanny state! :-)
>>>>
>>>>Next they will be after me driving license.
>>>>Is there to be no end to it??
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why did they take your sword BTW?
>>
>>I think it my habit of running about the neighborhood looking for old
>>dragons to slay.
>>(We've several here, you know)
>>

See, you made the classic mistake... of running about in daylight so you could
see where the dragon was... next time... Hunt in the dark... :-)

Ray
conwaycaine
2010-12-10 15:27:01 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:00:29 -0500, WhiteWolf!
> <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie

>>>> Why did they take your sword BTW?
>>>
>>>I think it my habit of running about the neighborhood looking for old
>>>dragons to slay.
>>>(We've several here, you know)
>>>
>
> See, you made the classic mistake... of running about in daylight so you
> could
> see where the dragon was... next time... Hunt in the dark... :-)

I tried that.
The flapping of unseen wings and the sight of fiery breath coming from
unseen mouths completely unnerved me.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-14 16:03:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:27:01 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 09 Dec 2010 13:00:29 -0500, WhiteWolf!
>> <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
>
>>>>> Why did they take your sword BTW?
>>>>
>>>>I think it my habit of running about the neighborhood looking for old
>>>>dragons to slay.
>>>>(We've several here, you know)
>>>>
>>
>> See, you made the classic mistake... of running about in daylight so you
>> could
>> see where the dragon was... next time... Hunt in the dark... :-)
>
>I tried that.
>The flapping of unseen wings and the sight of fiery breath coming from
>unseen mouths completely unnerved me.
>

Apparently you should grab a virgin and use her as a shield as the Dragon won't
attack her... Or some such... :) How you find out she's a virgin... I guess you
could ask and if she is of upstanding character she will answer you honestly
because her word means something...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
conwaycaine
2010-12-14 18:58:29 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:27:01 -0500, "conwaycaine"
> <***@bellsouth.net>

>>> See, you made the classic mistake... of running about in daylight so you
>>> could
>>> see where the dragon was... next time... Hunt in the dark... :-)
>>
>>I tried that.
>>The flapping of unseen wings and the sight of fiery breath coming from
>>unseen mouths completely unnerved me.
>>
>
> Apparently you should grab a virgin and use her as a shield as the Dragon
> won't
> attack her... Or some such... :) How you find out she's a virgin... I
> guess you
> could ask and if she is of upstanding character she will answer you
> honestly
> because her word means something...

***
Rather than ask the dear thing, let the dragon firemounth her.
If you and she live, then she is a virgin.
Otherwise, you are both toast.........
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-14 18:58:30 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:58:29 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:27:01 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>
>>>> See, you made the classic mistake... of running about in daylight so you
>>>> could
>>>> see where the dragon was... next time... Hunt in the dark... :-)
>>>
>>>I tried that.
>>>The flapping of unseen wings and the sight of fiery breath coming from
>>>unseen mouths completely unnerved me.
>>>
>>
>> Apparently you should grab a virgin and use her as a shield as the Dragon
>> won't
>> attack her... Or some such... :) How you find out she's a virgin... I
>> guess you
>> could ask and if she is of upstanding character she will answer you
>> honestly
>> because her word means something...
>
>***
>Rather than ask the dear thing, let the dragon firemounth her.
>If you and she live, then she is a virgin.
>Otherwise, you are both toast.........
>

LOL!!! There is glory in being toasted by a pure dragon, no?

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
conwaycaine
2010-12-15 14:27:47 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:58:29 -0500, "conwaycaine"
> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>***
>>Rather than ask the dear thing, let the dragon firemounth her.
>>If you and she live, then she is a virgin.
>>Otherwise, you are both toast.........
>>
>
> LOL!!! There is glory in being toasted by a pure dragon, no?

And going out with Virgin in hand ain't all that bad either.
Of course muzzies seem to have the better deal when it comes to cavorting
with virgins.
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-15 17:04:20 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:nZ-***@giganews.com...
>
> "WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:58:29 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>***
>>>Rather than ask the dear thing, let the dragon firemounth her.
>>>If you and she live, then she is a virgin.
>>>Otherwise, you are both toast.........
>>>
>>
>> LOL!!! There is glory in being toasted by a pure dragon, no?
>
> And going out with Virgin in hand ain't all that bad either.
> Of course muzzies seem to have the better deal when it comes to cavorting
> with virgins.

It was not onbly muslim virgins Us planes and GIs incinerated. It was
mostly other civilians and children. Why don't you look at the pictures? Oh
yeah the Us media won't show them.
conwaycaine
2010-12-16 16:57:42 UTC
Permalink
"Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme> wrote in message
news:38bcc$4d08f54c$bc8d6b20$***@news.upc.ie...
>
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:nZ-***@giganews.com...
>>
>> "WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:58:29 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>>***
>>>>Rather than ask the dear thing, let the dragon firemounth her.
>>>>If you and she live, then she is a virgin.
>>>>Otherwise, you are both toast.........
>>>>
>>>
>>> LOL!!! There is glory in being toasted by a pure dragon, no?
>>
>> And going out with Virgin in hand ain't all that bad either.
>> Of course muzzies seem to have the better deal when it comes to cavorting
>> with virgins.
>
> It was not onbly muslim virgins Us planes and GIs incinerated. It was
> mostly other civilians and children. Why don't you look at the pictures?
> Oh yeah the Us media won't show them.

Whatever are you referring to?
Mavisbeacon
2010-12-18 10:47:33 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:***@giganews.com...
>
> "Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme> wrote in message
> news:38bcc$4d08f54c$bc8d6b20$***@news.upc.ie...
>>
>> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:nZ-***@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>> news:***@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:58:29 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>>>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>>>***
>>>>>Rather than ask the dear thing, let the dragon firemounth her.
>>>>>If you and she live, then she is a virgin.
>>>>>Otherwise, you are both toast.........
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LOL!!! There is glory in being toasted by a pure dragon, no?
>>>
>>> And going out with Virgin in hand ain't all that bad either.
>>> Of course muzzies seem to have the better deal when it comes to
>>> cavorting with virgins.
>>
>> It was not onbly muslim virgins Us planes and GIs incinerated. It was
>> mostly other civilians and children. Why don't you look at the pictures?
>> Oh yeah the Us media won't show them.
>
> Whatever are you referring to?


Well the killing of 125 afghans ( 90p9 of which were children) which was
officially reported as 25 deaths.
Oh and Falluja - reported as a group of Muslim fundies when in fact it was a
city of Civilians wher are the reports from in side the city?
Oh yeah thats right the reporters were "embedded" in the US military and not
subjected to the gas attacks!
There happens to be coverage from Falluja and Afghanistan that the Us media
never show Have you seen it?

How many US troops died ? 30,000 plus? How many pictures did you ever see of
a dead GI?

And i9n all the movies made about US wars it is only the rogue bad guy who
says "you can't handle the truth" and never the groups at the top who know
about civilian deaths but keep them covered up while they assist business
interests.

In the twentieth century the US has been involved ion about 100 wars
exculding WWI WWII and Korea and most of them were to support buisiness.

In the UK ther is a monument with 40,000 names on it . It is for those who
dies outside the big wars. If 40k elite UK troops died outside proper wars
how many civilians did and what did they die for?
conwaycaine
2010-12-18 15:42:28 UTC
Permalink
"Mavisbeacon" <***@nospam.forme> wrote in message
news:4f9c1$4d0c9177$bc8d6b20$***@news.upc.ie...
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message

>>> It was not onbly muslim virgins Us planes and GIs incinerated. It was
>>> mostly other civilians and children. Why don't you look at the pictures?
>>> Oh yeah the Us media won't show them.
>>
>> Whatever are you referring to?

> In the twentieth century the US has been involved ion about 100 wars
> exculding WWI WWII and Korea and most of them were to support buisiness.

Ray and I are discussing dragons and virgins, not world history.
Why not start a new thread wherein you may lambast Americans?
(And stop screwing up our dragon thread)
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-09 19:40:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 13:00:53 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:11:34 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 15:59:30 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>>>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>>>>I've no sword these days.
>>>>>The Garda took it from me.................
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> F'n nanny state! :-)
>>>
>>>Next they will be after me driving license.
>>>Is there to be no end to it??
>>>
>>
>> Why did they take your sword BTW?
>
>I think it my habit of running about the neighborhood looking for old
>dragons to slay.
>(We've several here, you know)
>
Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins! Wonder
if there's still any of them left to defend! :)

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-10 03:46:33 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>
>Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins! Wonder
>if there's still any of them left to defend! :)
>

I suspect you're the only one, Ray...

--
You have never lived until you have almost died.
Life has a special meaning that the protected
will never know.
conwaycaine
2010-12-10 15:28:09 UTC
Permalink
"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>
>>Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins!
>>Wonder
>>if there's still any of them left to defend! :)
>>
>
> I suspect you're the only one, Ray...

Only one what?
Dragon? Virgin? or <shudder> Liberal?
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-14 16:03:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:28:09 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins!
>>>Wonder
>>>if there's still any of them left to defend! :)
>>>
>>
>> I suspect you're the only one, Ray...
>
>Only one what?
>Dragon? Virgin? or <shudder> Liberal?
>

Of the three, I think Dragon suits me... :)

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
conwaycaine
2010-12-14 18:56:31 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:28:09 -0500, "conwaycaine"
> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>>>>Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins!
>>>>Wonder
>>>>if there's still any of them left to defend! :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect you're the only one, Ray...
>>
>>Only one what?
>>Dragon? Virgin? or <shudder> Liberal?
>>
>
> Of the three, I think Dragon suits me... :)

Ah, a true fire breather you!!
;=)
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-14 18:57:29 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:56:31 -0500, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:28:09 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins!
>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>if there's still any of them left to defend! :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suspect you're the only one, Ray...
>>>
>>>Only one what?
>>>Dragon? Virgin? or <shudder> Liberal?
>>>
>>
>> Of the three, I think Dragon suits me... :)
>
>Ah, a true fire breather you!!
> ;=)
>

Ah Conway... I'm sorta down for a dragon... find me an Irish man that's not
"down" at Christmas and I'l show you a dragon that's a con artist...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
conwaycaine
2010-12-15 14:26:27 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:56:31 -0500, "conwaycaine"
> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>
>>Ah, a true fire breather you!!
>> ;=)
>>
>
> Ah Conway... I'm sorta down for a dragon... find me an Irish man that's
> not
> "down" at Christmas and I'l show you a dragon that's a con artist...

Every Christmas I get down in the dumps.
Now I know why.
Hereditary blues?
What next???
Anyway, Merry Christmas, Ray.............
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-15 02:05:48 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 10:28:09 -0500, "conwaycaine"
>> <***@bellsouth.net>
>>>"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>Damn Liberals... Will preserve Dragons... Despite the risk to virgins!
>>>>>Wonder
>>>>>if there's still any of them left to defend! :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suspect you're the only one, Ray...
>>>
>>>Only one what?
>>>Dragon? Virgin? or <shudder> Liberal?
>>>
>>
>> Of the three, I think Dragon suits me... :)
>
>Ah, a true fire breather you!!
> ;=)
>

You mean a true lizard, don't you?

--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
conwaycaine
2010-12-15 14:35:16 UTC
Permalink
"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>>
>>> Of the three, I think Dragon suits me... :)
>>
>>Ah, a true fire breather you!!
>> ;=)
>>
>
> You mean a true lizard, don't you?

Giving Jeff a rest, are we?
;=)

Nice article in today's Charlotte paper.
They were non too slyly taking a local gun dealer to task for having a very
high rate of their guns ending up in criminal hands.
Way down in the article they mentioned the dealer sells over 800,000 guns a
year.
Even the ATF was quoted as saying the rate was high because of the volume
and that the dealer had a very good record meeting the labyrinth fed regs.
The bias even showed in the snide way they incessantly quoted the owner as
"He said, he said, he said", suggesting the dealer was a lying dog.
Quite the implication.
They also mentioned the number of firearms hanging on the walls and in
showcase while regulating safety locks and safes to "A separate showroom".
Gun control freaks take heart, the Charlotte Observer is on your side.
Falcon
2010-11-29 14:43:41 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! wrote...

[...]

> [waterboarding is] simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner
> is perfectly fine... All fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed
> etc... Some information gleaned, and needing to be verified...

Is this really the same Whitewolf who complained about republican
prisoners being kept awake at night by being forced to listen to loud
music with the lights on? What a hypocrite.

--
Falcon:
fide, sed cui vide. (L)
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-01 14:06:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:43:41 -0000, Falcon <***@invalid.net> wrote:

>
>WhiteWolf! wrote...
>
>[...]
>
>> [waterboarding is] simulated drowning... When it's over, the prisoner
>> is perfectly fine... All fingers intact, and no eyeballs removed
>> etc... Some information gleaned, and needing to be verified...
>
>Is this really the same Whitewolf who complained about republican
>prisoners being kept awake at night by being forced to listen to loud
>music with the lights on? What a hypocrite.

Differnt time, place and circumstance.

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Ray O'Hara
2010-11-19 21:34:26 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
> prove
> that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good old-fashioned
> civilian
> court procedures. All was well until last month, when the district court
> judge
> barred the feds' blockbuster witness from testifying, even though he was
> prepared to tell the jury that he sold Ghailani the explosives used to
> destroy
> the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in 1998. The feds had only learned of the
> witness's
> identity during enhanced interrogation of Ghailani, and since the
> interrogation
> was deemed illegal, evidence derived from it was inadmissible. Without
> that
> testimony, the case collapsed. And now, a month later, we have a
> full-blown
> fiasco on our hands.
>
> He was the first Gitmo detainee they sent to civilian court. And thanks to
> today's verdict, now he'll probably be the last.
>


he's getting 20 years.
Gitmo couldn't get 5 against Bin Laden's driver.
the other charges were dropped because the evidence was all extracted
through torture and inadmissable.

so once again we see you are wrong.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-11-24 13:26:46 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:34:26 -0500, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>> prove
>> that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good old-fashioned
>> civilian
>> court procedures. All was well until last month, when the district court
>> judge
>> barred the feds' blockbuster witness from testifying, even though he was
>> prepared to tell the jury that he sold Ghailani the explosives used to
>> destroy
>> the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in 1998. The feds had only learned of the
>> witness's
>> identity during enhanced interrogation of Ghailani, and since the
>> interrogation
>> was deemed illegal, evidence derived from it was inadmissible. Without
>> that
>> testimony, the case collapsed. And now, a month later, we have a
>> full-blown
>> fiasco on our hands.
>>
>> He was the first Gitmo detainee they sent to civilian court. And thanks to
>> today's verdict, now he'll probably be the last.
>>
>
>
>he's getting 20 years.

Oh big whoop! He got convicted of 1 charge out of 185! Obama dodged a bullet
(politically)... Because this fella, who Holder assures us was a slam dunk
guilty case... Almost walked!

KSM will not now be tried in a civilian court... At least not so long as Obama
is president...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Ray O'Hara
2010-11-25 04:18:34 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:34:26 -0500, "Ray O'Hara"
> <raymond-***@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>> prove
>>> that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good old-fashioned
>>> civilian
>>> court procedures. All was well until last month, when the district court
>>> judge
>>> barred the feds' blockbuster witness from testifying, even though he was
>>> prepared to tell the jury that he sold Ghailani the explosives used to
>>> destroy
>>> the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in 1998. The feds had only learned of the
>>> witness's
>>> identity during enhanced interrogation of Ghailani, and since the
>>> interrogation
>>> was deemed illegal, evidence derived from it was inadmissible. Without
>>> that
>>> testimony, the case collapsed. And now, a month later, we have a
>>> full-blown
>>> fiasco on our hands.
>>>
>>> He was the first Gitmo detainee they sent to civilian court. And thanks
>>> to
>>> today's verdict, now he'll probably be the last.
>>>
>>
>>
>>he's getting 20 years.
>
> Oh big whoop! He got convicted of 1 charge out of 185! Obama dodged a
> bullet
> (politically)... Because this fella, who Holder assures us was a slam dunk
> guilty case... Almost walked!
>
> KSM will not now be tried in a civilian court... At least not so long as
> Obama
> is president...
>
> Ray

He was convicted of the one charge he was guilty of.

the rest were bullshit and a jury of Americans clearly saw that.
sorry, this isn't Nazi Germany where people are condemned by military
tribunals.
if you don't like our justice system feel free to go home.
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-11-29 13:55:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:18:34 -0500, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:34:26 -0500, "Ray O'Hara"
>> <raymond-***@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message
>>>news:***@4ax.com...
>>>> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
>>>> prove
>>>> that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good old-fashioned
>>>> civilian
>>>> court procedures. All was well until last month, when the district court
>>>> judge
>>>> barred the feds' blockbuster witness from testifying, even though he was
>>>> prepared to tell the jury that he sold Ghailani the explosives used to
>>>> destroy
>>>> the U.S. embassy in Tanzania in 1998. The feds had only learned of the
>>>> witness's
>>>> identity during enhanced interrogation of Ghailani, and since the
>>>> interrogation
>>>> was deemed illegal, evidence derived from it was inadmissible. Without
>>>> that
>>>> testimony, the case collapsed. And now, a month later, we have a
>>>> full-blown
>>>> fiasco on our hands.
>>>>
>>>> He was the first Gitmo detainee they sent to civilian court. And thanks
>>>> to
>>>> today's verdict, now he'll probably be the last.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>he's getting 20 years.
>>
>> Oh big whoop! He got convicted of 1 charge out of 185! Obama dodged a
>> bullet
>> (politically)... Because this fella, who Holder assures us was a slam dunk
>> guilty case... Almost walked!
>>
>> KSM will not now be tried in a civilian court... At least not so long as
>> Obama
>> is president...
>>
>> Ray
>
>He was convicted of the one charge he was guilty of.
>

How lucky for the Obama Admin...

>the rest were bullshit and a jury of Americans clearly saw that.
>sorry, this isn't Nazi Germany where people are condemned by military
>tribunals.

There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they were
jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal for
terrorists caught... End of story.

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Alan Smaill
2010-11-29 14:32:16 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:

> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they were
> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal for
> terrorists caught... End of story.

You really think that's the American Way, don't you?

sad ...

> Ray
> --

--
Alan Smaill
conwaycaine
2010-11-30 15:24:36 UTC
Permalink
"Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>
>> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
>> were
>> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal
>> for
>> terrorists caught... End of story.
>
> You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>
> sad ...
>

Seems to be the Brit way as well.
Ask any Irishman.................
Alan Smaill
2010-11-30 15:26:48 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> writes:

> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>>
>>> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
>>> were
>>> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal
>>> for
>>> terrorists caught... End of story.
>>
>> You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>>
>> sad ...
>>
>
> Seems to be the Brit way as well.
> Ask any Irishman.................

falling back on racial stereotypes now, I see.

I was rather hoping you would deny that that was the American Way.

--
Alan Smaill
Fred J. McCall
2010-11-30 16:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Alan Smaill <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>>>
>>>> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
>>>> were
>>>> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal
>>>> for
>>>> terrorists caught... End of story.
>>>
>>> You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>>>
>>> sad ...
>>>
>>
>> Seems to be the Brit way as well.
>> Ask any Irishman.................
>
>falling back on racial stereotypes now, I see.
>
>I was rather hoping you would deny that that was the American Way.
>

Of course you were. Then you get to control the debate. Stop trying
to be 'clever' and stand up for what you believe in.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
conwaycaine
2010-12-01 14:42:44 UTC
Permalink
"Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
>> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>>>
>>>> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
>>>> were
>>>> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military
>>>> tribunal
>>>> for
>>>> terrorists caught... End of story.
>>>
>>> You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>>>
>>> sad ...
>>>
>>
>> Seems to be the Brit way as well.
>> Ask any Irishman.................
>
> falling back on racial stereotypes now, I see.

Typical Brit, considering the Irish as a separate race.
I assume you hold to the standard Brit view that all Irishmen have long
wooly tails.


>
> I was rather hoping you would deny that that was the American Way.

BTW, I do not support "Vigorous interrogations".

May I mention in passing that my cracking the bones in my neck is proving to
be less than therapeutic.
The resultant numbness in my shoulders and arms is not at all pleasant.
I hope the bone cruncher can get me back in shape again.
(Sometimes I do the dumbest things)
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-02 02:51:18 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>(Sometimes I do the dumbest things)
>

Sometimes?

--
"Then tomorrow we may all be dead. But how is that different
from every other day?"
-- Morpheus
conwaycaine
2010-12-02 15:29:28 UTC
Permalink
"Fred J. McCall" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>(Sometimes I do the dumbest things)
>>
>
> Sometimes?

Hey, these neck cracks aren't the safest procedures in the Chiropractic
handbook.
I got popped yesterday and last night got an interesting bout of Vertigo.
(Neck is still sore but healing)
Alan Smaill
2011-02-05 20:33:22 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> writes:

> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> writes:
>>
>>> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>>>> WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>>>>
>>>>> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
>>>>> were
>>>>> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military
>>>>> tribunal
>>>>> for
>>>>> terrorists caught... End of story.
>>>>
>>>> You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>>>>
>>>> sad ...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Seems to be the Brit way as well.
>>> Ask any Irishman.................
>>
>> falling back on racial stereotypes now, I see.
>
> Typical Brit, considering the Irish as a separate race.
> I assume you hold to the standard Brit view that all Irishmen have long
> wooly tails.

I don't consider the Irish to be a separate race;
it's your attitude that is in question though.

Your knee-jerk ethnic stereotyping ( "typical Brit", "ask any Irishman",
"beating the Lambeg drum" etc) is straight uot of the PP song-book
(right pond volume), in fact.

Who do you think posted this?

"***True. You *nglishmen brought your bad habits along with your tainted
gene pools."

Me, PP or you? I don't believe PP ever descended to this level.


--
Alan Smaill
conwaycaine
2011-02-06 18:30:04 UTC
Permalink
"Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> writes:
>
> Your knee-jerk ethnic stereotyping ( "typical Brit", "ask any Irishman",
> "beating the Lambeg drum" etc) is straight uot of the PP song-book
> (right pond volume), in fact.

You really are out of sorts today.
(Or have you always been a stuffed up prig and I'm just now seeing it???)
denis
2010-12-01 00:10:06 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@giganews.com>,
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
> > WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
> >
> >> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
> >> were
> >> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal
> >> for
> >> terrorists caught... End of story.
> >
> > You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
> >
> > sad ...
> >
>
> Seems to be the Brit way as well.
> Ask any Irishman.................

Wrong again:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/01/criminal_courts_terrorists
.html
conwaycaine
2010-12-01 14:43:33 UTC
Permalink
"denis" <***@aol.com> wrote in message
news:mrwilson-***@62-183-169-81.bb.dnainternet.fi...
> In article <***@giganews.com>,
> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>> "Alan Smaill" <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
>> news:***@eriboll.inf.ed.ac.uk...
>> > WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>> >
>> >> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they
>> >> were
>> >> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military
>> >> tribunal
>> >> for
>> >> terrorists caught... End of story.
>> >
>> > You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>> >
>> > sad ...
>> >
>>
>> Seems to be the Brit way as well.
>> Ask any Irishman.................
>
> Wrong again:

I wager that you deny Global Warming as well...............
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-01 14:06:50 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:32:16 +0000, Alan Smaill <***@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie writes:
>
>> There wont' be any more terrorists tried in civilian courts like they were
>> jaywalkers or shoplifters... A WAR on TERROR demands a military tribunal for
>> terrorists caught... End of story.
>
>You really think that's the American Way, don't you?
>
>sad ...

Democrats here want to treat it like a criminal offense instead of an act of
terrorism carried out by a Jihadist...

Recently, the FBI stopped a potential bomber in Portland, Oregon. A VERY
Liberal place... So Liberal are they - they refused to cooperate with Homeland
Security! The terrorist thought it was a grand target because they wouldn't be
expecting an attack there.... The Terrorists get it, the Conservatives get it,
but the Liberals are living happily in the land of theory and hope...

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Fred J. McCall
2010-12-01 14:27:37 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:

>
>A VERY
>Liberal place... So Liberal are they - they refused to cooperate with Homeland
>Security!
>

Cite?

>
>The terrorist thought it was a grand target because they wouldn't be
>expecting an attack there....
>

Cite?

Stop making up lies, Ray.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie
2010-12-06 20:37:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 01 Dec 2010 07:27:37 -0700, Fred J. McCall <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>WhiteWolf! <rayh(removespamblocker>@iol.ie wrote:
>
>>
>>A VERY
>>Liberal place... So Liberal are they - they refused to cooperate with Homeland
>>Security!
>>
>
>Cite?
>

God, your kinda hopelessly out of touch with what's going on aren't you? It was
all over the media and web...



>>
>>The terrorist thought it was a grand target because they wouldn't be
>>expecting an attack there....
>>
>
>Cite?
>
>Stop making up lies, Ray.

Try Google and the "news" section sometime... You'd be amazed at what your
missing!

Ray
--
Rubio for President! (2012)

Glenn Beck Celebrates 2010 election!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYPqv99l7rw

Obama National Anthem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46t_nrySg4

Join The Tea Party!
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of
ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent
virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
Harry Merrick
2010-11-20 12:33:03 UTC
Permalink
WhiteWolf! @iol.ie wrote:
> This was the guy whom Obama and Holder lined up as their test case to
> prove that, yes indeed, we can convict Gitmo jihadis using good
> old-fashioned civilian court procedures. All was well until last
> month, when the district court judge barred the feds' blockbuster
> witness from testifying, even though he was prepared to tell the jury
> that he sold Ghailani the explosives used to destroy the U.S. embassy
> in Tanzania in 1998. The feds had only learned of the witness's
> identity during enhanced interrogation of Ghailani, and since the
> interrogation was deemed illegal, evidence derived from it was
> inadmissible. Without that testimony, the case collapsed. And now, a
> month later, we have a full-blown fiasco on our hands.
>
> He was the first Gitmo detainee they sent to civilian court. And
> thanks to today's verdict, now he'll probably be the last.
>
> The defendant, Ahmed Khalfan Ghailani, 36, was convicted of one
> count of conspiracy to destroy government buildings and property. He
> was acquitted of six counts of conspiracy, including conspiring to
> kill Americans and use weapons of mass destruction.
>
> When the judge's clerk asked how the jury found on counts 11 to
> 223, which were all counts of murder, the jury foreman replied, "Not
> guilty."
>
> Mr. Ghailani faces a sentence of 20 years to life in prison.
>
> He helped to buy the Nissan Atlas truck that was used to carry the
> bomb, and gas tanks that were placed inside the truck to intensify
> the blast, the evidence showed. He also stored an explosive detonator
> in an armoire he used, and his cellphone became the "operational
> phone" for the plotters in the weeks leading up to the attacks,
> prosecutors said.
>
> The defense claimed he was just a dopey errand boy in Al Qaeda's
> sinister plot, even though he allegedly served as a bodyguard for the
> jihadi-in-chief himself. The Times piece tries to put a happy face on
> this for the White House, noting that the court sided with the feds
> in rulings before the trial that detention at Gitmo didn't violate
> Ghailani's right to a speedy trial and that enhanced interrogation
> didn't warrant dismissal of the charges. In theory, that clears the
> way for trying other terrorists in civilian court. But in practice,
> it's purely academic: Ain't no way, no how, no chance the DOJ will
> risk an acquittal by bringing another high-ranking terrorist to trial
> in a district court. They might do it for no-name operatives, where
> the fallout from a "not guilty" verdict wouldn't be totally
> disastrous, but the great national debate about whether to try KSM in
> a military court or in Manhattan is now well and truly over. In case
> it wasn't already.
>
> Over at Ace's site, DrewM is aghast that the DOJ has released a
> statement claiming that they're "pleased" with Ghailani's conviction
> on just one of the hundreds of counts against him. Yeah, of course
> that's mostly face-saving spin - but not entirely. If he had walked,
> Obama would now be in the excruciating position of having to decide
> whether to let him go, which would be an utter political disaster, or
> to re-arrest him and hold him on some sort of preventive detention
> grounds, which would be a civil libertarian nightmare (and a
> political disaster among his base). This, in a nutshell, is why they
> now favor simply leaving KSM in legal limbo and not trying him
> anywhere - because, even in a military tribunal, there's at least a
> (very) small chance that he'll be acquitted and Obama will face this
> same impossible dilemma on an epic scale. I'd love to be a fly on the
> wall in Holder's office right now.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2drpdrz
>
> Another embarrassing black eye for Obama... And for Justice. Obama
> just got "lucky" that the terror suspect was at least convicted of
> ONE charge... And this they put on a happy face about! the other 280
> charges... Oh well... Right Libs?
>
> Can't wait for the KSM trial to start in New York? What? It's been
> postponed until after 2012 election? What a shock! Well, at least
> by then the troops will be home from that Afghan hell right? What?
> No? 2014 at the earliest? What about the promises? What will the
> Anti-War protesters say now? If their convictions are real, and not
> politically motivated, they will turn on Obama just as viciously as
> they did on Bush should be an interesting 2 years for Obama...
>
> Just saying...
>
> Now, what say you?

Similar to us here in the UK and the EU. Normal Justice makes an ass of any
attempts to convict terrorists by being far too PC and fussy. The corollary
would be, if we, as individuals were being tried by these persons, what
chance fairness? Not likely. IMO, terrorism is a base criminal act and as
such should be treated differently to normal crime and court trials. Trial
by Judge only, no jurors. In camera, no press or human rights activists. At
least that. Of course, the real answer is to shoot them when first arrested
or during arrest and save us all the cost and expenses whilst at the same
time putting them out of their misery!
--
Harry Merrick.
Mavisbeacon
2010-11-20 13:58:17 UTC
Permalink
"Harry Merrick" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@mid.individual.net...
> WhiteWolf! @iol.ie wrote:
>>
>> Now, what say you?
>
> Similar to us here in the UK and the EU. Normal Justice makes an ass of
> any attempts to convict terrorists by being far too PC and fussy. The
> corollary would be, if we, as individuals were being tried by these
> persons, what chance fairness? Not likely. IMO, terrorism is a base
> criminal act and as such should be treated differently to normal crime and
> court trials. Trial by Judge only, no jurors. In camera, no press or human
> rights activists. At least that. Of course, the real answer is to shoot
> them when first arrested or during arrest and save us all the cost and
> expenses whilst at the same time putting them out of their misery!
> --
> Harry Merrick.

Yes. Harry is all for Diplock courts and the Birtmingham siuxc and the
guildford Four and the Mc Guire Seven happening all over again.
Apparently so is Whitewolf.

Bur Harry goes even futther. Deny anyone justice by shooting anyone that
disagrees with you. How then are the "security forces" any different from
the "terrorists" Harry is more like a terrorist than he realises.
Mavisbeacon
2010-11-20 08:36:50 UTC
Permalink
"WhiteWolf! @iol.ie" <rayh(removespamblocker> wrote in message >
> Now, what say you?
>
> Ray
> --

I say you only want to believe in your own justice system when it gives
verdicts which accord with your pre conceived ideas.

You know "we will give the nigga a fair trial and then hang him"

But if that doesnt happen it becaomes "what do you mean the nigga was
acquitted?"

If you don't like your justice system doing what people told you would
happen you arew just like the authoritarian zealots who believe in a cult
leader when he is asking the members to poision themselves for a higher
purpose.
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