Discussion:
The Sky Is Falling!!
(too old to reply)
conwaycaine
2009-03-03 15:19:12 UTC
Permalink
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.

Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-03 15:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks
to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
[except in Australia]
Post by conwaycaine
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
You should be used ot it by now.
But there there Conway - don't you fret.
I just had a quick look at today's papers and here's some GOOD news for you.

The Reserve Bank of Australia has held interest rates steady at 3.25 per
cent.
The RBA says while the world economy is still very weak, the Australian
financial system remains strong.
In a statement, Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens says demand has not
weakened as much as in other countries.
"On the basis of currently available information, the Australian economy has
not experienced the sort of large contraction seen elsewhere," he said.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/03/2506165.htm



Yesterday's interest rate decision came as trade figures surprised on the
upside and indicated Australia's economy has avoided a contraction
in the December quarter.
Australia's current account deficit narrowed to an almost seven-year low of
$6.499 billion in the December quarter, shrinking from $9.498 billion in the
September quarter and coming in ahead of the $7.5 billion figure economists
had been expecting.
Economists now believe GDP may have lifted by between 0.1 per cent and 0.5
per cent in the last three months of 2008, while economies overseas
contracted.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25135459-664,00.html



New home sales surge
New home sales jumped in January as buyers responded to interest rate cuts
and the Federal Government's stimulus plan.
Sales of new homes, including multi-unit dwellings, gained by nationally by
8% in January, the Housing Industry Association said, reversing a 1.1% fall
in December.
http://business.watoday.com.au/business/new-home-sales-surge-20090302-8lv2.html



Australian credit growth rebounds on deep rate cuts
SYDNEY, Feb 27 (Reuters) - Australian private sector credit rebounded in
January, helped by robust demand for loans from businesses and home buyers,
adding to the case for a pause in the pace of interest rate cuts
next week.
http://in.reuters.com/article/asiaCompanyAndMarkets/idINSYD45348520090227



Rise in spending points to positive Q4
A strong rise in new capital spending by business at the end of 2008 helped
keep the economy expanding.
The surprise increase in expenditure on new capital works points to a
positive gross domestic product (GDP) growth outcome for the fourth quarter,
when the data are release next week.
New private capital expenditure rose 6.0 per cent in real terms, seasonally
adjusted, in the December quarter, the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS)
said on Thursday.
The result was in sharp contrast to market expectations for a three per cent
decline and was underpinned by a 11.5 per cent jump in expenditure in the
building and structures category, which includes work done in the mining
sector.
[lost cite - sorry]



Housing rental squeeze relaxes in Sydney
SYDNEY'S suburban rental squeeze is easing thanks to first-home buyers and
investors returning to the city's property market.
NSW Real Estate Institute president Steve Martin said yesterday a
combination of first-home buyers and investors had lifted the number of
available properties.
"At last it seems we are seeing some return to the market by investors, at
least in the key population belt of Sydney," Mr Martin said.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25108072-5006786,00.html


What a pity you're just too decrepit and impoverished to emigrate over here.
conwaycaine
2009-03-03 17:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
<A great sipping of Oz propaganda>
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
What a pity you're just too decrepit and impoverished to emigrate over here.
If someone in the purse business would only pay the passage, why I'd be
delighted to indenture myself for a time to pay for the fare.
(Assuming Oz has not collapsed in the meantime)
.
Jeffrey Hamilton
2009-03-03 17:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks
to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.

cheers....Jeff
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 14:53:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks
to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-04 15:14:50 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:
:
:"Jeffrey Hamilton" <***@cogeco.ca> wrote in message
:news:kJdrl.20259$***@read2.cgocable.net...
:>
:> "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
:> news:dMbrl.11033$***@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
:>> AIG posts major losses
:>> The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks
:>> to Common.
:>> The Dow crashes.
:>> Stock markets across the world plunge.
:>> Emergency meetings in Yurp.
:>>
:>> Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
:>>
:>
:> Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
:
:To quote Senator Sam Ervin
:"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
:money"
:

Uh, that would have been Everett Dirkson.
--
"May God have mercy upon my enemies; they will need it."
-- General George S Patton, Jr.
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 17:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:To quote Senator Sam Ervin
:"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
:money"
Uh, that would have been Everett Dirkson.
Do you not know by now not top pay any attention as to whom I attribute a
quote.
<I'll bet Senator Sam said it first>
S Viemeister
2009-03-04 15:20:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks
to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
Joe Makowiec
2009-03-04 15:39:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking
real money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
The most common attribution is to Everett Dirksen[1], although that's
probably wrong. The Dirksen Center website has this to say:

Did Dirksen ever say, " A billion here, a billion there, and pretty
soon you're talking real money"? (or anything very close to that?)

Perhaps not. Based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio
records of The Dirksen Congressional Center, staffers there have
found no evidence that Dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly
attributed to him.

http://www.dirksencenter.org/print_emd_billionhere.htm

[1]
http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=D000360
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everett_Dirksen
--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 17:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Makowiec
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking
real money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
The most common attribution is to Everett Dirksen[1], although that's
Did Dirksen ever say, " A billion here, a billion there, and pretty
soon you're talking real money"? (or anything very close to that?)
Perhaps not. Based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio
records of The Dirksen Congressional Center, staffers there have
found no evidence that Dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly
attributed to him.
Thank you, Joe.
Anybody for Sam?
Josiah Jenkins
2009-03-04 18:29:00 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:15:14 -0500, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Joe Makowiec
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking
real money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
The most common attribution is to Everett Dirksen[1], although that's
Did Dirksen ever say, " A billion here, a billion there, and pretty
soon you're talking real money"? (or anything very close to that?)
Perhaps not. Based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio
records of The Dirksen Congressional Center, staffers there have
found no evidence that Dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly
attributed to him.
Thank you, Joe.
Anybody for Sam?
Sam 'include me out' Goldwyn ?
conwaycaine
2009-03-05 15:03:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Josiah Jenkins
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:15:14 -0500, "conwaycaine"
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Joe Makowiec
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking
real money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
The most common attribution is to Everett Dirksen[1], although that's
Did Dirksen ever say, " A billion here, a billion there, and pretty
soon you're talking real money"? (or anything very close to that?)
Perhaps not. Based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio
records of The Dirksen Congressional Center, staffers there have
found no evidence that Dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly
attributed to him.
Thank you, Joe.
Anybody for Sam?
Sam 'include me out' Goldwyn ?
I'm good!
Cory Bhreckan
2009-03-04 15:56:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
I think it was first attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen (1896-1969).
--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 17:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cory Bhreckan
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
I think it was first attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen (1896-1969).
It's being actively disputed even as we write.
Cory Bhreckan
2009-03-04 18:29:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Cory Bhreckan
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
I think it was first attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen (1896-1969).
It's being actively disputed even as we write.
It's been disputed whether he actually *said* it or not, not that it was
attributed to him.
--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall
Jane Margaret Laight
2009-03-04 23:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cory Bhreckan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Cory Bhreckan
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
I think it was first attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen (1896-1969).
It's being actively disputed even as we write.
It's been disputed whether he actually *said* it or not, not that it was
attributed to him.
--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
being a Tarheel born and raised, I grew up with stories of Sam Ervin,
who was a southern gentleman of the old school, as my grandmother used
to say. His deep baritone became well known to Murkins during the
Watergate hearings of the late 70s, which culminated in the
impeachment and ultimate resignation of then President Nixon. Senator
Sam, as we called him, was a funny man with a wealth of stories; here
is a poem that I remember from back then:

The rain it raineth on the just
And also on the unjust fella;
But chiefly on the just, because
The unjust steals the just's umbrella.

Some of his comments about executive privilege made against Nixon and
his crew seem to still have meaning in the light of the late
presidential administration, although Senator Ervin has been gone
almost a quarter century.

As for Everett McKinley Dirksen, try this cite:

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/our-daily-bleg-let-me-trace-your-quotes/

Glad to see all is about the same at good old scs

JML
traveling girl
Joe Makowiec
2009-03-05 01:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jane Margaret Laight
His deep baritone became well known to Murkins during the
Watergate hearings of the late 70s, which culminated in the
impeachment and ultimate resignation of then President Nixon.
Although I have a great deal of respect for Sam for what he did, Nixon
was never impeached. If I remember correctly, the House Judiciary
Committee either had voted to bring a bill of impeachment or was close to
doing so. The full House never voted on it; Nixon resigned first. Among
US presidents, the honor of being impeached belongs to Andrew Johnson and
Bill Clinton. Neither was convicted by the Senate.
--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org/
Jane Margaret Laight
2009-03-05 01:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Makowiec
Post by Jane Margaret Laight
His deep baritone became well known to Murkins during the
Watergate hearings of the late 70s, which culminated in the
impeachment and ultimate resignation of then President Nixon.
Although I have a great deal of respect for Sam for what he did, Nixon
was never impeached.  If I remember correctly, the House Judiciary
Committee either had voted to bring a bill of impeachment or was close to
doing so.  The full House never voted on it; Nixon resigned first.  Among
US presidents, the honor of being impeached belongs to Andrew Johnson and
Bill Clinton.  Neither was convicted by the Senate.
--
Joe Makowiechttp://makowiec.org/
Email:http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project:http://improve-usenet.org/
true--it would have been more accurate to say that "impeachment
proceedings had commenced but Nixon resigned before they progressed to
a vote by the full House of Representatives."

herewith something to stir your memory:
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm

JML
well, I was young at the time
Cory Bhreckan
2009-03-05 01:34:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jane Margaret Laight
Post by Joe Makowiec
Post by Jane Margaret Laight
His deep baritone became well known to Murkins during the
Watergate hearings of the late 70s, which culminated in the
impeachment and ultimate resignation of then President Nixon.
Although I have a great deal of respect for Sam for what he did, Nixon
was never impeached. If I remember correctly, the House Judiciary
Committee either had voted to bring a bill of impeachment or was close to
doing so. The full House never voted on it; Nixon resigned first. Among
US presidents, the honor of being impeached belongs to Andrew Johnson and
Bill Clinton. Neither was convicted by the Senate.
--
Joe Makowiechttp://makowiec.org/
Email:http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Usenet Improvement Project:http://improve-usenet.org/
true--it would have been more accurate to say that "impeachment
proceedings had commenced but Nixon resigned before they progressed to
a vote by the full House of Representatives."
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/impeachments/nixon.htm
JML
well, I was young at the time
He knew he would be impeached and convicted.
--
"For the stronger we our houses do build,
The less chance we have of being killed." - William Topaz McGonagall
conwaycaine
2009-03-05 15:06:27 UTC
Permalink
being a Tarheel born and raised, I grew up with stories of Sam Ervin,
who was a southern gentleman of the old school, as my grandmother used
to say. His deep baritone became well known to Murkins during the
Watergate hearings of the late 70s, which culminated in the
impeachment and ultimate resignation of then President Nixon. Senator
Sam, as we called him, was a funny man with a wealth of stories; here
is a poem that I remember from back then:

The rain it raineth on the just
And also on the unjust fella;
But chiefly on the just, because
The unjust steals the just's umbrella.

Some of his comments about executive privilege made against Nixon and
his crew seem to still have meaning in the light of the late
presidential administration, although Senator Ervin has been gone
almost a quarter century.

***********

Senator Sam is an Icon inNorth Carolina.
He was a man of great character and integrity.
We sure could use a few more like him in Washington.

*********


As for Everett McKinley Dirksen, try this cite:

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/our-daily-bleg-let-me-trace-your-quotes/

Glad to see all is about the same at good old scs

JML
traveling girl
conwaycaine
2009-03-05 15:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cory Bhreckan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Cory Bhreckan
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
I think it was first attributed to Senator Everett Dirksen (1896-1969).
It's being actively disputed even as we write.
It's been disputed whether he actually *said* it or not, not that it was
attributed to him.
Keep up with the program, Cory.
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 17:14:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by S Viemeister
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred
stocks to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Never, it was _only_ another 30 BILLION'$. Small change, say I.
To quote Senator Sam Ervin
"A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking real
money"
Are you _sure_ it was Sam Ervin who said that?
Fred The Arch Conservative says not.
But for all I know it could have been Pliny the Elder.
La N.
2009-03-03 17:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
You know things are bad when you pay good money to go to one of those
brunches with lots of free champagne in So Cal, and you have to
actually ask for the champagne, the bottle of which is actually taken
away, and you have to remind the server to come around again to
provide us with a second small glass. The quality of the bubbly, from
what I understand, has deteriorated too.

Anyway, it *is* pretty frightening what is happenig in the world ....
except in Australia, of course!

-nilita
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-04 11:40:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge.
Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
You know things are bad when you pay good money to go to one of those
brunches with lots of free champagne in So Cal, and you have to
actually ask for the champagne, the bottle of which is actually taken
away, and you have to remind the server to come around again to
provide us with a second small glass. The quality of the bubbly, from
what I understand, has deteriorated too.

Anyway, it *is* pretty frightening what is happenig in the world ....
except in Australia, of course!

It's a bit rough here too but, exactly as I predicted, only about one
twelfth as serious a contraction as in the US.
In fact I think we've got about another three months before we officially go
into a recession - not bad considering the US has been in one since 2007.
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 14:54:28 UTC
Permalink
"La N." <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:dae2324b-5fd8-42bc-9a5d-***@k29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 3, 7:19 am, "conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Anyway, it *is* pretty frightening what is happenig in the world ....
except in Australia, of course!

********

And we do, after all, have the word of our very own "Home Truth" boy for
that.
Ian Smith
2009-03-03 20:15:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:19:12 -0500, conwaycaine scrievit this wi a finger
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks
to Common.
The Dow crashes.
Stock markets across the world plunge. Emergency meetings in Yurp.
Am I going to have to admit that Adam is right?
Just as well I'm not materialistic then. No need for luxuries like
heating, lights, running water, etc. Besides, we're all doomed anyway,
once that Hadron Collider produced black hole munches enough of the
Earth's core over the next 3 years.
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-03 20:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.

What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?

Deirdre
conwaycaine
2009-03-04 14:56:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
That was but a very indirect slag of old AWS.
I likes to poke at him from time to time just to watch him stomp his little
footsies.
Scotty
2009-03-04 20:26:07 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Deirdre
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-04 21:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Better a looonnng slide than a one week plummet.

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-05 08:07:30 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:55:55 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Better a looonnng slide than a one week plummet.
Deirdre
Does a 17% drop in the last 4 weeks, since O'Bama has been talking to the
problem, qualify as a plummet?
--
"For every problem there is a solution which is simple, clean and wrong".
-- Henry Louis Mencken
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-05 13:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:55:55 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Better a looonnng slide than a one week plummet.
Deirdre
Does a 17% drop in the last 4 weeks, since O'Bama has been talking to the
problem, qualify as a plummet?
No.

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-05 19:31:38 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:20:44 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:55:55 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Better a looonnng slide than a one week plummet.
Deirdre
Does a 17% drop in the last 4 weeks, since O'Bama has been talking to the
problem, qualify as a plummet?
No.
Deirdre
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Shares of Citigroup <C.N>, once the world's most
valuable bank, tumbled below $1 on Thursday, taking its year-to-date drop
to 85 percent.

Citigroup, a Dow component, fell more than 13 percent to an intraday low of
$0.98, hammered by continued fears over the bank's health and ability to
avert nationalization.

About two years ago, Citi's market value was above $270 billion. Today its
market cap is a little over $5.4 billion."

Does an 85% tumble equate to a plummet?

The DOW is 6600 and dangerously close to the 5900 forecast by Adam, I would
hate for Adam to be correct for the first time in history AND it'll cost me
a beer... I'll have to sell three Citi shares!
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-05 20:32:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:20:44 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Better a looonnng slide than a one week plummet.
Does a 17% drop in the last 4 weeks, since O'Bama has been talking to the
problem, qualify as a plummet?
No.
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Shares of Citigroup <C.N>, once the world's most
valuable bank, tumbled below $1 on Thursday, taking its year-to-date drop
to 85 percent.
Does an 85% tumble equate to a plummet?
Over the course of a _year_?

Falling mountain climbers would like to "plummet" so slowly.

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-08 01:23:02 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 14:32:53 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 07:20:44 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
Better a looonnng slide than a one week plummet.
Does a 17% drop in the last 4 weeks, since O'Bama has been talking to the
problem, qualify as a plummet?
No.
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - Shares of Citigroup <C.N>, once the world's most
valuable bank, tumbled below $1 on Thursday, taking its year-to-date drop
to 85 percent.
Does an 85% tumble equate to a plummet?
Over the course of a _year_?
Falling mountain climbers would like to "plummet" so slowly.
Deirdre,

Yyou are a hard woman to satisfy...

Well, so far we have had: the sky is falling, crashed, slow correcting
decline (for some value of slow), looonnng slide, tumble, plummet and we
have been told that it's not the speed that kills , it's the sudden stop.

I'm reminded of the old schoolboy riddle: What is the last thing that
passes through the mind of a bee as it crashes into your windscreen?
A, His ass.

I will concede that Citi shares at $0.98 isn't zero but can you agree that
our ass is about to envelope our head?

To coin a phrase: It's not the velocity stupid, it's the trajectory. :-)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1159677/Pictured-The-credit-crunch-tent-city-returned-haunt-America.html
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-08 03:00:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Yyou are a hard woman to satisfy...
Maybe...or perhaps you just haven't the knack.
Post by Scotty
I will concede that Citi shares at $0.98 isn't zero but can you agree that
our ass is about to envelope our head?
I can't speak for your ass...and as for mine? No, I daresay
it isn't. It should be no news to anyone that bubbles burst...
we converted to cash in September of 2007 when the writing
was clearly on the wall for anyone to read and we re-entered
the market in late October of last year. Mind you, financials
are not a favoured investment instrument, so we've none of
them in our portfolio.

As for Citi? The firm has been mismanaged for a long time...
it had a $10 billion dollar loss in the 4th quarter of _2007_...
and losses every quarter since. The question isn't "Why is
their stock worth so little?" but rather "Why is it worth any-
thing at all?"
Post by Scotty
To coin a phrase: It's not the velocity stupid, it's the trajectory. :-)
Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
to either stop or change course. If one adheres the principal
of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.

Deirdre
La N.
2009-03-08 03:07:49 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 7, 7:00 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
to either stop or change course.  If one adheres the principal
of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.  
Maybe get back in at the time of the proverbial "dead cat bounce"?

- nilita
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-08 03:34:16 UTC
Permalink
"La N." <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

:On Mar 7, 7:00 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
:<***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
:
:>
:> Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
:> to either stop or change course.  If one adheres the principal
:> of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
:> when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.  
:>
:
:Maybe get back in at the time of the proverbial "dead cat bounce"?
:

I was listening to MarketPlace on NPR on Friday and they had a guest
on who pretty much summarized it as something like, "The time to buy
back into this kind of market is about the time when everyone else is
giving up and just investing in canned goods and ammunition." That
was about the time the market would digest all this crap and turn
around.

Of course, that assumes that Obama can avoid doing things that
exacerbate the situation. Given the record so far, I'm not convinced
that's a good bet.
--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-08 03:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N.
On Mar 7, 7:00 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
to either stop or change course.  If one adheres the principal
of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.  
Maybe get back in at the time of the proverbial "dead cat bounce"?
The time to get back in is when you can afford to possibly lose
any money you invest...such is always the case with the stock
market and always has been. If you don't want any losses and
can't take any risk, then you need to invest in cash based in-
struments like certificates of deposit.

I suspect that a fair amount of market decline right now might
be driven by the need to meet margin calls by those (both indi-
vidual and corporate) who over-leveraged their buying in a Bull
market. The biggest problem with this sort of investing is that
during steep decline, a highly leveraged margin account can go
into an uncheckable death spiral...especially if the account is
loaded with options or index instruments. If enough of these
account start spiralling downwards, they can drag the market
along for the ride.

Warren Buffet said he felt like a mosquito in a nudist camp and
I can see why...there are a lot of equities which are seriously
undervalued and have declined for no real reason save for a
Bear market.

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-08 13:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N.
On Mar 7, 7:00 pm, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
to either stop or change course.  If one adheres the principal
of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.  
Maybe get back in at the time of the proverbial "dead cat bounce"?
- nilita
This cat has bounced so many times and misinterpreted as a bottom that I
think it is well and truly dead... While it is still early days, it seems
that Congress are determined to stamp on its poor dead head.
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-08 03:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Deirdre Sholto Douglas <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
:
:Scotty wrote:
:
:> Yyou are a hard woman to satisfy...
:
:Maybe...or perhaps you just haven't the knack.
:

Ouch! That's just harsh, Deirdre! ;-)

:
:> I will concede that Citi shares at $0.98 isn't zero but can you agree that
:> our ass is about to envelope our head?
:
:I can't speak for your ass...and as for mine? No, I daresay
:it isn't. It should be no news to anyone that bubbles burst...
:we converted to cash in September of 2007 when the writing
:was clearly on the wall for anyone to read and we re-entered
:the market in late October of last year. Mind you, financials
:are not a favoured investment instrument, so we've none of
:them in our portfolio.
:

The stock market has been a scary place for a long time, what with the
panicky behaviour and volatility it's exhibited for years now.

:
:As for Citi? The firm has been mismanaged for a long time...
:it had a $10 billion dollar loss in the 4th quarter of _2007_...
:and losses every quarter since. The question isn't "Why is
:their stock worth so little?" but rather "Why is it worth any-
:thing at all?"
:

You think Citi is in trouble now, just wait for it. Ask yourself who
the single biggest holder of GM stock is.

[I think it at least used to be CitiGroup.]

:> To coin a phrase: It's not the velocity stupid, it's the trajectory. :-)
:
:Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
:to either stop or change course. If one adheres the principal
:of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
:when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.
:

True. You may have reentered somewhat early, but if you just hold it
long enough and are diverse enough, the overall value comes back up.
It's the day traders and folks trying for quick 'in and out' that get
handed their heads in this kind of market.
--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
Scotty
2009-03-08 13:19:24 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:00:24 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
You are a hard woman to satisfy...
Maybe...or perhaps you just haven't the knack.
:-) not a knack I've ever sought. I have been very lucky though...
Poor long suffering member of your species, Saintly, I tell you, except
when I made my first Trans Atlantic voyage, she dragged me off to the
Lawyer by my ear, to make out a will, practical and saintly!
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
I will concede that Citi shares at $0.98 isn't zero but can you agree that
our ass is about to envelope our head?
I can't speak for your ass...and as for mine? No, I daresay
it isn't.
Oh! So you're OK, Jack! Your lack of empathy for these poor folk noted.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1159677/Pictured-The-credit-crunch-tent-city-returned-haunt-America.html

Surprising for someone who has chosen your vocation. None of us will be
immune from the consequences, crime, malnutrition and diseases, etc.. I've
previously posted that I'm OK, so no whine or complaints here.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
It should be no news to anyone that bubbles burst...
we converted to cash in September of 2007 when the writing
was clearly on the wall for anyone to read and we re-entered
the market in late October of last year. Mind you, financials
are not a favoured investment instrument, so we've none of
them in our portfolio.
Still too soon, me thinks. I'm not the brightest candle on the Xmas tree
but the stupidity of these bastions of society, is astounding.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
As for Citi? The firm has been mismanaged for a long time...
it had a $10 billion dollar loss in the 4th quarter of _2007_...
and losses every quarter since. The question isn't "Why is
their stock worth so little?" but rather "Why is it worth any-
thing at all?"
Mentioned for illustrative purposes only and getting worse, given, as Fred
mentions further down, the connection with GM and no doubt many other large
corporations.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
To coin a phrase: It's not the velocity stupid, it's the trajectory. :-)
Neither matter particularly if one has the intellectual friction
to either stop or change course. If one adheres the principal
of selling out when greed is running unchecked and buying in
when fear rules, it's possible to ride these sorts of things out.
True.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Deirdre
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-08 17:02:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:00:24 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
You are a hard woman to satisfy...
Maybe...or perhaps you just haven't the knack.
:-) not a knack I've ever sought. I have been very lucky though...
Poor long suffering member of your species, Saintly, I tell you, except
when I made my first Trans Atlantic voyage, she dragged me off to the
Lawyer by my ear, to make out a will, practical and saintly!
I presume you're referring to your mother?
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
I will concede that Citi shares at $0.98 isn't zero but can you agree that
our ass is about to envelope our head?
I can't speak for your ass...and as for mine? No, I daresay
it isn't.
Oh! So you're OK, Jack! Your lack of empathy for these poor folk noted.
And what, precisely, would you like me to do? Feel guilty
because I didn't buy a house I couldn't afford (at 120%
financing), didn't max out my credit cards and didn't sit
on my hands when it was obvious the market was going
to be badly impacted by a bursting bubble?

No, I don't have scads of empathy for people who got in
over their heads assuming they could forever ride on the
rise...I didn't have empathy for them in October, 1987
either. Sensible folk realise that things _cycle_ and up
cycles are always followed by downs....and they plan for
them accordingly.
Post by Scotty
Surprising for someone who has chosen your vocation.
My vocation? My _vocation_? If you think I'm a nun you
have me confused with someone else.
Post by Scotty
None of us will be
immune from the consequences, crime, malnutrition and diseases, etc..
Lord, yet another Cassandra...

This isn't the end of civilisation, son...this is an economic
cycle. Perhaps you're too young to remember the early
'70's (early '80's and early '90's) but those of us who do
realise that economies ebb and flow...you can either relax
to them and ride them out or flail about and go under...the
choice is yours, but you don't get to instruct others how
they're required to react.
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
It should be no news to anyone that bubbles burst...
we converted to cash in September of 2007 when the writing
was clearly on the wall for anyone to read and we re-entered
the market in late October of last year. Mind you, financials
are not a favoured investment instrument, so we've none of
them in our portfolio.
Still too soon, me thinks. I'm not the brightest candle on the Xmas tree
but the stupidity of these bastions of society, is astounding.
They're actually very bright people...sadly they're also
very greedy ones and they got away with so much for
so long that they became stupid.

Moreover, since you've no idea what our strategy is
you're in no position to determine whether we entered
"too soon" or not.
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
As for Citi? The firm has been mismanaged for a long time...
it had a $10 billion dollar loss in the 4th quarter of _2007_...
and losses every quarter since. The question isn't "Why is
their stock worth so little?" but rather "Why is it worth any-
thing at all?"
Mentioned for illustrative purposes only and getting worse, given, as Fred
mentions further down, the connection with GM and no doubt many other large
corporations.
And you personally can do dick all about it, so why are you
wringing your hands? In an airplane they instruct you to
put your own oxygen mask on before you attempt to help
others...the same applies here...set your own financial
house in order to weather the storm first.

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-08 21:04:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 11:02:12 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:00:24 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
You are a hard woman to satisfy...
Maybe...or perhaps you just haven't the knack.
:-) not a knack I've ever sought. I have been very lucky though...
Poor long suffering member of your species, Saintly, I tell you, except
when I made my first Trans Atlantic voyage, she dragged me off to the
Lawyer by my ear, to make out a will, practical and saintly!
I presume you're referring to your mother?
:-) my wife, partner, friend and sometime guardian, silly.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Oh! So you're OK, Jack! Your lack of empathy for these poor folk noted.
And what, precisely, would you like me to do?
The only thing one can do in a democracy. Never vote for people who have
enabled these greedy bastard bankers to exploit the underclass.
Politicians, however noble the intention, who didn't have the brain to
anticipate the unintended consequences of applying pressure on Fanny and
Freddy to give loans that predictably would blow-up. Barney Frank and Chris
Dodd and their ilk.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Feel guilty
How did you leap from empathy to guilt? Of course we are all responsible
for the government "we the people" individually elect.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Surprising for someone who has chosen your vocation.
My vocation? My _vocation_? If you think I'm a nun you
have me confused with someone else.
Sorry if I over estimated you. I remember you talking of remediation of a
degraded environment and assumed micro-biologist, working for a Gov
organization, who are not often adequately compensated. An admirable
vocation to me, sorry but then I'm "old school".
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
This isn't the end of civilisation, son...this is an economic
cycle. Perhaps you're too young to remember the early
I remember the '30s lady and most things in between.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
It should be no news to anyone that bubbles burst...
Still too soon, me thinks. I'm not the brightest candle on the Xmas tree
but the stupidity of these bastions of society, is astounding.
They're actually very bright people...sadly they're also
very greedy ones and they got away with so much for
so long that they became stupid.
Bright people get stupid? Even you know that bubbles burst.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
As for Citi? The firm has been mismanaged for a long time...
it had a $10 billion dollar loss in the 4th quarter of _2007_...
and losses every quarter since. The question isn't "Why is
their stock worth so little?" but rather "Why is it worth any-
thing at all?"
It's not, it's insolvent.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
And you personally can do dick all about it, so why are you
wringing your hands? In an airplane they instruct you to
put your own oxygen mask on before you attempt to help
others...the same applies here...set your own financial
house in order to weather the storm first.
It is, thank you for caring.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Deirdre
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-09 02:39:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 11:02:12 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
And what, precisely, would you like me to do?
The only thing one can do in a democracy. Never vote for people who have
enabled these greedy bastard bankers to exploit the underclass.
Oh, well...since you've solved everything politically we've
nothing left to discuss, have we?
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Feel guilty
How did you leap from empathy to guilt? Of course we are all responsible
for the government "we the people" individually elect.
Um...no, we are not all responsible...I am not responsible for
the actions of someone I didn't vote for.
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
My vocation? My _vocation_? If you think I'm a nun you
have me confused with someone else.
Sorry if I over estimated you. I remember you talking of remediation of a
degraded environment and assumed micro-biologist, working for a Gov
organization, who are not often adequately compensated. An admirable
vocation to me, sorry but then I'm "old school".
So? I should empathise with stupid decisions because I'm
underpaid and work in environmental research?
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
This isn't the end of civilisation, son...this is an economic
cycle. Perhaps you're too young to remember the early
I remember the '30s lady and most things in between.
In which case, your predictions of the imminent downfall of
civilisation as we know it are even _more_ irresponsible.
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
They're actually very bright people...sadly they're also
very greedy ones and they got away with so much for
so long that they became stupid.
Bright people get stupid? Even you know that bubbles burst.
A bright person is not incapable of a stupid action...bright
people get greedy...and think they're immune from being
caught in their own web. Until it trips them up.

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-09 20:47:14 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:39:40 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 11:02:12 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
And what, precisely, would you like me to do?
The only thing one can do in a democracy. Never vote for people who have
enabled these greedy bastard bankers to exploit the underclass.
Oh, well...since you've solved everything politically we've
nothing left to discuss, have we?
Yep.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
The only thing one can do in a democracy.
Oh, and just an aside...
The U.S. isn't a democracy...maybe a class in remedial
civics is in order?
Not to be too parochial I used the generic "democracy", as far as I know
only San Marino and the US are constitutional republics. Maybe the
democratic world does end at our borders...
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Deirdre
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-10 01:43:48 UTC
Permalink
Scotty <***@home.net> wrote:
:
: Not to be too parochial I used the generic "democracy", as far as I know
:only San Marino and the US are constitutional republics. Maybe the
:democratic world does end at our borders...
:

Where would your borders be? There are no 'democracies' in the strict
sense of the word. If you think there are, do please name one.
--
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion ...
The tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood
of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure."
-- Thomas Jefferson, referring to Shay's Rebellion
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-10 02:50:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:39:40 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
The U.S. isn't a democracy...maybe a class in remedial
civics is in order?
Not to be too parochial I used the generic "democracy", as far as I know
only San Marino and the US are constitutional republics. Maybe the
democratic world does end at our borders...
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.

However, in order to keep things simple, I'll be happy to
settle for the name of just one country which operates as
one. Take your time...

Deirdre
conwaycaine
2009-03-10 13:24:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-10 13:59:31 UTC
Permalink
"conwaycaine" <***@bellsouth.net> wrote:

:
:"Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <***@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
:news:***@sbcglobal.net...
:> Scotty wrote:
:>
:> Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
:> if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
:> name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
:> word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
:> aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
:> munes works (really badly) for nations.
:
:The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
:

Well, only the Athenians. And they had a pretty selective
'democracy', too, come to that...
--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
conwaycaine
2009-03-10 17:43:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred J. McCall
:>
:> Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
:> if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
:> name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
:> word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
:> aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
:> munes works (really badly) for nations.
:The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
Well, only the Athenians. And they had a pretty selective
'democracy', too, come to that...
True.
The less desirables were not encouraged to vote.
Much like England in some respects.
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-10 14:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
I can't imagine why given that their government is a
parliamentary republic.

Deirdre
conwaycaine
2009-03-10 17:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
I can't imagine why given that their government is a
parliamentary republic.
Not modern Greeks.
Take it back quite a few centuries, Deirdre.
When Grecian "Democracy" was at its peak.
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-10 18:19:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
I can't imagine why given that their government is a
parliamentary republic.
Not modern Greeks.
Take it back quite a few centuries, Deirdre.
When Grecian "Democracy" was at its peak.
You mean the one which was limited to one city (Athens) and
excluded two thirds of the members of "citizen" families?
The one where only adult males who had completed military
service and owed no money to the city had a voice?

That "democracy"? The one fronting for the underlying
plutocracy?

Aye...a shining beacon to us all.

Deirdre
conwaycaine
2009-03-10 23:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
The Greeks will be after you for that one!!
I can't imagine why given that their government is a
parliamentary republic.
Not modern Greeks.
Take it back quite a few centuries, Deirdre.
When Grecian "Democracy" was at its peak.
You mean the one which was limited to one city (Athens) and
excluded two thirds of the members of "citizen" families?
The one where only adult males who had completed military
service and owed no money to the city had a voice?
That "democracy"? The one fronting for the underlying
plutocracy?
Aye...a shining beacon to us all.
Well, gee, Deirdre, the Plutocrats comprised the democracy.
It was us European guys what distorted the "purity" of their little
governmental exercise.
Scotty
2009-03-11 19:10:20 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:50:38 -0500, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:39:40 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
The U.S. isn't a democracy...maybe a class in remedial
civics is in order?
Not to be too parochial I used the generic "democracy", as far as I know
only San Marino and the US are constitutional republics. Maybe the
democratic world does end at our borders...
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
Argumentative and pedantic and now that Fred has joined in, I see that you
hunt in packs..
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
However, in order to keep things simple, I'll be happy to
settle for the name of just one country which operates as
one. Take your time...
I'll only remind you of the well known quote by Churchill, if the word is
good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Deirdre
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-11 20:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:50:38 -0500, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:39:40 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
The U.S. isn't a democracy...maybe a class in remedial
civics is in order?
Not to be too parochial I used the generic "democracy", as far as I know
only San Marino and the US are constitutional republics. Maybe the
democratic world does end at our borders...
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
Argumentative and pedantic and now that Fred has joined in, I see that you
hunt in packs..
Hm. I see. Can't come up with any names so you opt for
a diversionary tactic. Not a bad attempt at misdirection,
but you're a bit too obvious.

Let's get back on track, shall we? Can you, or can you not,
name a (modern) democracy where sovereignty is directly
held and managed by participating citizens?
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
However, in order to keep things simple, I'll be happy to
settle for the name of just one country which operates as
one. Take your time...
I'll only remind you of the well known quote by Churchill, if the word is
good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
You mean the House of Commons speech where he declared
"Democracy is the worst form of government..." ? Or the
one where he said "The best argument against democracy
is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."? Or
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule..."?

Democracy was never good enough for him...and the nation
he represented has never been one.

Care to try again?

Deirdre
Scotty
2009-03-12 20:27:35 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:03:30 -0500, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Mon, 09 Mar 2009 21:50:38 -0500, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Scotty
On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 20:39:40 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
The U.S. isn't a democracy...maybe a class in remedial
civics is in order?
Not to be too parochial I used the generic "democracy", as far as I know
only San Marino and the US are constitutional republics. Maybe the
democratic world does end at our borders...
Words actually have meanings, you know? And I think that
if you actually do a bit of digging, you'll be hard pressed to
name _any_ actual democracy in the "generic" sense of the
word...namely that sovereignty-is-directly-held-and-man-
aged-by-participating-citizens. What works (badly) for com-
munes works (really badly) for nations.
Argumentative and pedantic and now that Fred has joined in, I see that you
hunt in packs..
Hm. I see. Can't come up with any names so you opt for
a diversionary tactic. Not a bad attempt at misdirection,
but you're a bit too obvious.
Let's get back on track, shall we? Can you, or can you not,
name a (modern) democracy where sovereignty is directly
held and managed by participating citizens?
Post by Scotty
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
However, in order to keep things simple, I'll be happy to
settle for the name of just one country which operates as
one. Take your time...
I'll only remind you of the well known quote by Churchill, if the word is
good enough for him, it's good enough for me.
You mean the House of Commons speech where he declared
"Democracy is the worst form of government..." ? Or the
one where he said "The best argument against democracy
is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."? Or
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule..."?
I had the first in mind but you can take your pick.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Democracy was never good enough for him...and the nation
he represented has never been one.
Care to try again?
No thanks, since we don't have one definition of democracy but, I would
agree that all politicians are scum, IMNSHO.
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Deirdre
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
2009-03-09 02:42:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
The only thing one can do in a democracy.
Oh, and just an aside...

The U.S. isn't a democracy...maybe a class in remedial
civics is in order?

Deirdre
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-06 03:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Does an 85% tumble equate to a plummet?
The DOW is 6600 and dangerously close to the 5900 forecast by Adam, I would
hate for Adam to be correct for the first time in history AND it'll cost me
a beer... I'll have to sell three Citi shares!
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that the
UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics, I've been spot on
about damn near everything so far.
I picked the *exact month* that UK house prices would begin falling over a
year in advance - to much ridiclule from some.
I even forcast oil would drop back below $30 in 2009 nearly three years
ago - again to much hilarity from the rest of the group as per usual.
OK it isn't 'below $30' (yet) but it's a lot nearer 30 than it is to 200
which is what some genius's in here (and in the governments) were forcasting
at the time.
You'll owe me a pint before the years out too.
Scotty
2009-03-06 10:45:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Does an 85% tumble equate to a plummet?
The DOW is 6600 and dangerously close to the 5900 forecast by Adam, I would
hate for Adam to be correct for the first time in history AND it'll cost me
a beer... I'll have to sell three Citi shares!
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that the
UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics, I've been spot on
about damn near everything so far.
I picked the *exact month* that UK house prices would begin falling over a
year in advance - to much ridiclule from some.
I even forcast oil would drop back below $30 in 2009 nearly three years
ago - again to much hilarity from the rest of the group as per usual.
OK it isn't 'below $30' (yet) but it's a lot nearer 30 than it is to 200
which is what some genius's in here (and in the governments) were forcasting
at the time.
You'll owe me a pint before the years out too.
Before the year is out??? At -300 hundred points a day I'll owe you that
beer by Monday...
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-06 13:13:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Does an 85% tumble equate to a plummet?
The DOW is 6600 and dangerously close to the 5900 forecast by Adam, I would
hate for Adam to be correct for the first time in history AND it'll cost me
a beer... I'll have to sell three Citi shares!
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that the
UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics, I've been spot on
about damn near everything so far.
I picked the *exact month* that UK house prices would begin falling over a
year in advance - to much ridiclule from some.
I even forcast oil would drop back below $30 in 2009 nearly three years
ago - again to much hilarity from the rest of the group as per usual.
OK it isn't 'below $30' (yet) but it's a lot nearer 30 than it is to 200
which is what some genius's in here (and in the governments) were forcasting
at the time.
You'll owe me a pint before the years out too.
Before the year is out??? At -300 hundred points a day I'll owe you that
beer by Monday...
Just er... hedging my bets.
It'll stick just above 6,000 for quite a while. I think they call it
'defending' - I call it bollox. Then it will dip below 5,900.
If anyone still has any money left by then that will be the time to buy -
green energy stocks is my tip.
Scotty
2009-03-22 17:36:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Before the year is out??? At -300 hundred points a day I'll owe you that
beer by Monday...
Just er... hedging my bets.
It'll stick just above 6,000 for quite a while. I think they call it
'defending' - I call it bollox. Then it will dip below 5,900.
If anyone still has any money left by then that will be the time to buy -
green energy stocks is my tip.
I'm sometimes even kind to Adam.
Adam, Dr James Lovelock has an interesting take on Green Industries. For
the lurkers, Lovelock is deemed to be the Grandfather of environmentalism
and coined the word.

<http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126921.500-one-last-chance-to-save-mankind.html?full=true&print=true>

"With his 90th birthday in July, a trip into space scheduled for later in
the year and a new book out next month, 2009 promises to be an exciting
time for James Lovelock. But the originator of the Gaia theory, which
describes Earth as a self-regulating planet, has a stark view of the future
of humanity".

conwaycaine
2009-03-06 18:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-07 04:35:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
I think it was more ignorance and that the sellers basically lied about what
was in them.
They were parceled up as triple A's. I mean if you can't trust a cabal of US
merchant bankers then who CAN you trust?
Scotty
2009-03-07 11:13:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
I think it was more ignorance and that the sellers basically lied about what
was in them.
The British bankers were duped by the stupid Americans? I thought it was
only Americans who bought triple A bridges...
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
They were parceled up as triple A's. I mean if you can't trust a cabal of US
merchant bankers then who CAN you trust?
That would be "Fraud" then? There is an old saying that "you cannot Con an
honest man".
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-07 12:17:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
I think it was more ignorance and that the sellers basically lied about what
was in them.
The British bankers were duped by the stupid Americans? I thought it was
only Americans who bought triple A bridges...
British merchant bankers are a seperate sub-species known as merchant
bankers.
They're not like the rest of us.
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
They were parceled up as triple A's. I mean if you can't trust a cabal of US
merchant bankers then who CAN you trust?
That would be "Fraud" then? There is an old saying that "you cannot Con an
honest man".
It certainly looks like fraud to me. If it's true that the Americans lied
about the ratings at point of sale then how is it not?
I wouldn't be surprised to see criminal proceedings resulting from this.
Trouble is it's a bit like trying to get a lawyer to prosecute another
lawyer for malpractice. Merchant bankers everywhere are likely to sit in a
tight-knot circle and deny everything.
conwaycaine
2009-03-07 14:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
I think it was more ignorance and that the sellers basically lied about
what was in them.
They were parceled up as triple A's. I mean if you can't trust a cabal of
US merchant bankers then who CAN you trust?
I'm not sure anyone really knew.
The blasted formula was so obscure that no one could understand it (or
wanted to).
La N.
2009-03-07 16:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
I think it was more ignorance and that the sellers basically lied about what
was in them.
They were parceled up as triple A's. I mean if you can't trust a cabal of US
merchant bankers then who CAN you trust?
"In God We Trust". I see that on the coinage down here in the US.

- nilita
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-07 17:21:29 UTC
Permalink
"La N." <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
:"In God We Trust". I see that on the coinage down here in the US.
:

Yep, and the reason it's on the money is the imputed completion of
that statement.

"In God we trust. All others pay cash."

Or, from the Rules (of Gunfighting):

"Hands kill. Watch their hands. In God we trust. Everybody else
keep your hands where I can see them."
--
"If it's the fool who likes to rush in.
And if it's the angel who never does try.
And if it's me who will lose or win
Then I'll make my best guess and I won't care why.
Come on and get me, you twist of fate.
I'm standing right here, Mr Destiny.
If you want to talk, well then I'll relate.
If you don't, so what? 'Cuz you don't scare me.
-- "Gunfighter", Blues Traveler
Josiah Jenkins
2009-03-07 19:38:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Mar 2009 08:19:11 -0800 (PST), "La N."
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Cheeky git. I know none of you can stand it but, apart from missing that
the UK banks were so horrendously exposed to the US toxics,
That would be "Greed"?
I think it was more ignorance and that the sellers basically lied about what
was in them.
They were parceled up as triple A's. I mean if you can't trust a cabal of US
merchant bankers then who CAN you trust?
"In God We Trust". . .
Everyone else pays cash ?
I see that on the coinage down here in the US.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-05 03:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Deirdre
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
I stick to my forcast of a year ago - it will go to about 5,900 before it
hits bottom.
Scotty
2009-03-05 08:34:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Post by conwaycaine
AIG posts major losses
The US moves to take a share in AIG by converting their preferred stocks to
Common.
The Dow crashes.
Nothing has "crashed"...at best, (or worst) it's a slow
correcting decline...the DJIA is relatively flat as of this
moment...off less than a tenth of a percent.
What have you been smoking and did you bring enough
for everyone?
Deirdre
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
I stick to my forcast of a year ago - it will go to about 5,900 before it
hits bottom.
Ya, almost immediately after I wrote that, the market turned and dropped 1%
I think it's best not to talk about it, it's obviously listening.

All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.

I'll bet a virtual beer that it doesn't drop to 6000 unless O'Bama does
something really stupid (which it seems he is determined to do), then all
bets are off. In the meantime hope springs eternal...
--
2 plus 2 (does) = 5, for extremely large values of 2
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-05 10:48:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Maybe not a crash but certainly a looonnng slide from abt 14,000 last
September to below 7000. I see that it is valiantly climbing above 6950.49
as I write. Wow!
I stick to my forcast of a year ago - it will go to about 5,900 before it
hits bottom.
Ya, almost immediately after I wrote that, the market turned and dropped 1%
I think it's best not to talk about it, it's obviously listening.
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
My forcast is that Oz won't go into official recession until early June.
China's industrial output has risen for two months running now and they will
be spending big on infrastructure - all fairly positive news for Oz, who as
I forcast, have ridden out the GFC(TM) better than any other western
country. Mineral export volumes are actually up - it's just the prices that
have fallen drastically.
The US however, is totally doomed and is heading back to third world status.
You wait till you see the scale of commercial mortgage defaults heading your
way.
Post by Scotty
I'll bet a virtual beer that it doesn't drop to 6000 unless O'Bama does
something really stupid (which it seems he is determined to do), then all
bets are off. In the meantime hope springs eternal...
Yeah - Just as soon as he gets that burst bubble inflated again things will
be fine.
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )

None of it has affected me all that much. Maybe lost about 8% on property
values on the year but seeing as I've made over 20% a year since 2002 I
can't complain.
Scotty
2009-03-05 20:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
Damn, it turned out be a plain budget speech, no stimulus announced.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
Did you deliberately mis-read that "further"? It means a SECOND stimulus!
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )
Too true! But to lighten things a bit, here is how the markets really work!

John Bird and John Fortune



Conway might even have a few spare minutes to get educated...
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-06 03:40:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
Damn, it turned out be a plain budget speech, no stimulus announced.
They have already announced a stimulus package weeks ago. $59billion IIRC.
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
Did you deliberately mis-read that "further"? It means a SECOND stimulus!
No I didn't mis-read anyhting. - it's been well publicised that he has
*always intended* introducing a SECOND stimulus at some point. He has also
hinted at another one further down the line. They've been pretty open and
pre-emptive so far. Not that I'm convinced it's going to work but
surprisingly things do seem to be looking up here. For the moment at least.
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )
Too true! But to lighten things a bit, here is how the markets really work!
John Bird and John Fortune
http://youtu.be/5OtKt3ezHY0
Conway might even have a few spare minutes to get educated...
Yes it's funy but I saw it ages ago - I think it's been out for about 18
months now. Strangely, while the British were laughing about the insanity of
it all the Americans where still ramping it up regardless.
Scotty
2009-03-06 09:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
Damn, it turned out be a plain budget speech, no stimulus announced.
They have already announced a stimulus package weeks ago. $59billion IIRC.
You seem to have missed a naught there. The initial Chinese package was
$590billion but everybody was expecting the announcement of a second.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
Did you deliberately mis-read that "further"? It means a SECOND stimulus!
No I didn't mis-read anyhting. - it's been well publicised that he has
*always intended* introducing a SECOND stimulus at some point. He has also
hinted at another one further down the line. They've been pretty open and
pre-emptive so far. Not that I'm convinced it's going to work but
surprisingly things do seem to be looking up here. For the moment at least.
A third, wow, he obviously knows something that you don't.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )
Too true! But to lighten things a bit, here is how the markets really work!
John Bird and John Fortune
http://youtu.be/5OtKt3ezHY0
Conway might even have a few spare minutes to get educated...
Yes it's funy but I saw it ages ago -
Now we know were you get your information from.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
I think it's been out for about 18
months now. Strangely, while the British were laughing about the insanity of
it all the Americans where still ramping it up regardless.
Ya, sometime in 2007. I debated with myself whether I should announce it as
comedy, I showed it to a friend before Xmas and he never cracked a smile
once... he thought it was serious economic analysis!
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-06 13:10:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just
announced
a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in
need
of
Damn, it turned out be a plain budget speech, no stimulus announced.
They have already announced a stimulus package weeks ago. $59billion IIRC.
You seem to have missed a naught there. The initial Chinese package was
$590billion but everybody was expecting the announcement of a second.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
Did you deliberately mis-read that "further"? It means a SECOND stimulus!
No I didn't mis-read anyhting. - it's been well publicised that he has
*always intended* introducing a SECOND stimulus at some point. He has also
hinted at another one further down the line. They've been pretty open and
pre-emptive so far. Not that I'm convinced it's going to work but
surprisingly things do seem to be looking up here. For the moment at least.
A third, wow, he obviously knows something that you don't.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )
Too true! But to lighten things a bit, here is how the markets really work!
John Bird and John Fortune
http://youtu.be/5OtKt3ezHY0
Conway might even have a few spare minutes to get educated...
Yes it's funy but I saw it ages ago -
Now we know were you get your information from.
Close, but arse about face as we Brits say. They actualy contacted ME for
advice.
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
I think it's been out for about 18
months now. Strangely, while the British were laughing about the insanity of
it all the Americans where still ramping it up regardless.
Ya, sometime in 2007. I debated with myself whether I should announce it as
comedy, I showed it to a friend before Xmas and he never cracked a smile
once... he thought it was serious economic analysis!
: ) That's why it's funny.
British satire I suppose - not everyone gets it.
Did you see their take on the Iraqi oil grab - that was quite well done too.

Scotty
2009-03-06 19:33:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just
announced
a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in
need
of
Damn, it turned out be a plain budget speech, no stimulus announced.
They have already announced a stimulus package weeks ago. $59billion IIRC.
You seem to have missed a naught there. The initial Chinese package was
$590billion but everybody was expecting the announcement of a second.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
Did you deliberately mis-read that "further"? It means a SECOND stimulus!
No I didn't mis-read anyhting. - it's been well publicised that he has
*always intended* introducing a SECOND stimulus at some point. He has also
hinted at another one further down the line. They've been pretty open and
pre-emptive so far. Not that I'm convinced it's going to work but
surprisingly things do seem to be looking up here. For the moment at least.
A third, wow, he obviously knows something that you don't.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )
Too true! But to lighten things a bit, here is how the markets really work!
John Bird and John Fortune
http://youtu.be/5OtKt3ezHY0
Conway might even have a few spare minutes to get educated...
Yes it's funy but I saw it ages ago -
Now we know were you get your information from.
Close, but arse about face as we Brits say. They actualy contacted ME for
advice.
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
I think it's been out for about 18
months now. Strangely, while the British were laughing about the insanity of
it all the Americans where still ramping it up regardless.
Ya, sometime in 2007. I debated with myself whether I should announce it as
comedy, I showed it to a friend before Xmas and he never cracked a smile
once... he thought it was serious economic analysis!
: ) That's why it's funny.
British satire I suppose - not everyone gets it.
Did you see their take on the Iraqi oil grab - that was quite well done too.
http://youtu.be/Ptzml1qQvZE
Ummm, I always thought that Bush was pretty smart, now we have the proof
and from the Oracle of Oz, no less..
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-07 04:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just
announced
a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in
need
of
Damn, it turned out be a plain budget speech, no stimulus announced.
They have already announced a stimulus package weeks ago. $59billion IIRC.
You seem to have missed a naught there. The initial Chinese package was
$590billion but everybody was expecting the announcement of a second.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
He announced it ages ago - they seem to be trying to stay ahead of the game.
Did you deliberately mis-read that "further"? It means a SECOND stimulus!
No I didn't mis-read anyhting. - it's been well publicised that he has
*always intended* introducing a SECOND stimulus at some point. He has also
hinted at another one further down the line. They've been pretty open and
pre-emptive so far. Not that I'm convinced it's going to work but
surprisingly things do seem to be looking up here. For the moment at least.
A third, wow, he obviously knows something that you don't.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Borrowing your way out of debt is the only way to go : )
Too true! But to lighten things a bit, here is how the markets really work!
John Bird and John Fortune
http://youtu.be/5OtKt3ezHY0
Conway might even have a few spare minutes to get educated...
Yes it's funy but I saw it ages ago -
Now we know were you get your information from.
Close, but arse about face as we Brits say. They actualy contacted ME for
advice.
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
I think it's been out for about 18
months now. Strangely, while the British were laughing about the
insanity
of
it all the Americans where still ramping it up regardless.
Ya, sometime in 2007. I debated with myself whether I should announce it as
comedy, I showed it to a friend before Xmas and he never cracked a smile
once... he thought it was serious economic analysis!
: ) That's why it's funny.
British satire I suppose - not everyone gets it.
Did you see their take on the Iraqi oil grab - that was quite well done too.
http://youtu.be/Ptzml1qQvZE
Ummm, I always thought that Bush was pretty smart, now we have the proof
and from the Oracle of Oz, no less..
I'm not sure that Bush knew anything about it in reality - he just did what
he was told.
Scotty
2009-03-07 11:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
: ) That's why it's funny.
British satire I suppose - not everyone gets it.
Did you see their take on the Iraqi oil grab - that was quite well done too.
http://youtu.be/Ptzml1qQvZE
Ummm, I always thought that Bush was pretty smart, now we have the proof
and from the Oracle of Oz, no less..
I'm not sure that Bush knew anything about it in reality - he just did what
he was told.
So, you are saying that Bush was innocent of any wrongdoing?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-07 12:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
: ) That's why it's funny.
British satire I suppose - not everyone gets it.
Did you see their take on the Iraqi oil grab - that was quite well done too.
http://youtu.be/Ptzml1qQvZE
Ummm, I always thought that Bush was pretty smart, now we have the proof
and from the Oracle of Oz, no less..
I'm not sure that Bush knew anything about it in reality - he just did what
he was told.
So, you are saying that Bush was innocent of any wrongdoing?
No - doing what you are told by Cheney, Rumsfield et al is a criminal act in
my book.
Being a stupid ignorant gutless ****ing pig is no defence.

Where is the bounder anyway - isn't it about time he was strung up?
We know he doesn't believe in fair trials so there should be no hindrance in
that department.
Fred J. McCall
2009-03-07 16:49:15 UTC
Permalink
"Adam Whyte-Settlar" <***@ble> wrote:
:
:No - doing what you are told by Cheney, Rumsfield et al is a criminal act in my book.
:Being a stupid ignorant gutless ****ing pig is no defence.
:

Ok, now that Adam has eliminated the only possible defense for his
behaviour here, is it time for the Adorable Indictment?
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
Jeffrey Hamilton
2009-03-09 01:22:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
: ) That's why it's funny.
British satire I suppose - not everyone gets it.
Did you see their take on the Iraqi oil grab - that was quite well done too.
http://youtu.be/Ptzml1qQvZE
Ummm, I always thought that Bush was pretty smart, now we have the proof
and from the Oracle of Oz, no less..
I'm not sure that Bush knew anything about it in reality - he just did what
he was told.
So, you are saying that Bush was innocent of any wrongdoing?
No - doing what you are told by Cheney, Rumsfield et al is a criminal act
in my book.
Being a stupid ignorant gutless ****ing pig is no defence.
Where is the bounder anyway - isn't it about time he was strung up?
We know he doesn't believe in fair trials so there should be no hindrance
in that department.
Former U.S. president George W. Bush won't have to worry about dodging
journalists' shoes when he speaks in Calgary March 17, as reporters won't be
allowed in the same room as the unpopular Texan.

A table for 10 costs $4,000.

Calgary should be a pretty safe place for Bush to 'test the waters'
regarding his reception.
Alberta is known as a Conservative province in Canada, I'm pretty sure it's
never voted anything other than Conservative since the dirty 30's.

cheers...Jeff
conwaycaine
2009-03-05 15:10:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
Oz in need of a stimulus package?
That cannot be!!
Why that runs contrary to everything Adam has said about the state of the Oz
economy.
(Now stand by for a total rewrite by Adam of what he said on the state of
the Oz economy)
Post by Scotty
I'll bet a virtual beer that it doesn't drop to 6000 unless O'Bama does
something really stupid (which it seems he is determined to do), then all
bets are off. In the meantime hope springs eternal...
--
2 plus 2 (does) = 5, for extremely large values of 2
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-06 03:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Scotty
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
Oz in need of a stimulus package?
That cannot be!!
Why that runs contrary to everything Adam has said about the state of the
Oz economy.
(Now stand by for a total rewrite by Adam of what he said on the state of
the Oz economy)
I'd like to say 'nice try Conway old bean' - but it wasn't.
conwaycaine
2009-03-06 18:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Scotty
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
Oz in need of a stimulus package?
That cannot be!!
Why that runs contrary to everything Adam has said about the state of the
Oz economy.
(Now stand by for a total rewrite by Adam of what he said on the state of
the Oz economy)
I'd like to say 'nice try Conway old bean' - but it wasn't.
Your mind is on the approaching cyclone right?
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-07 04:32:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Scotty
Post by Scotty
On Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:25:14 -0600, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
All is not lost, there seems to be some hope since China just announced a
new stimulus program, Oz might even benefit. Oz also seems to be in need of
more help as Rudd has also announced a further stimulus package.
Oz in need of a stimulus package?
That cannot be!!
Why that runs contrary to everything Adam has said about the state of
the Oz economy.
(Now stand by for a total rewrite by Adam of what he said on the state
of the Oz economy)
I'd like to say 'nice try Conway old bean' - but it wasn't.
Your mind is on the approaching cyclone right?
Looks like we're in the clear.
It's now a Cat 3 and will go to Cat 4 overnight - a full blown monster.
However it has turned south and is now tracking the coast heading for a
little town called Mackay.
So screw them - hope it goes to Cat 5 and levels the place.
conwaycaine
2009-03-07 15:56:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Your mind is on the approaching cyclone right?
Looks like we're in the clear.
It's now a Cat 3 and will go to Cat 4 overnight - a full blown monster.
However it has turned south and is now tracking the coast heading for a
little town called Mackay.
So screw them - hope it goes to Cat 5 and levels the place.
I feel for the inhabitants.
I trust they will all leave and not play the fool with this storm.
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-08 03:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Your mind is on the approaching cyclone right?
Looks like we're in the clear.
It's now a Cat 3 and will go to Cat 4 overnight - a full blown monster.
However it has turned south and is now tracking the coast heading for a
little town called Mackay.
So screw them - hope it goes to Cat 5 and levels the place.
I feel for the inhabitants.
I trust they will all leave and not play the fool with this storm.
It's missed Mackay - looks like Bundaburg is bang in it's sights though.
It's a full-on Cat 5 now. 300kph winds.
I doubt many will leave - if any. The people in the lowest-lying areas will
head for higher ground perhaps but that's about the extent of it. This is
Australia not Wimpsville USA.
conwaycaine
2009-03-08 14:39:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
It's missed Mackay - looks like Bundaburg is bang in it's sights though.
It's a full-on Cat 5 now. 300kph winds.
I doubt many will leave - if any. The people in the lowest-lying areas
will head for higher ground perhaps but that's about the extent of it.
This is Australia not Wimpsville USA.
Assuming you can run the blighters out of their warm little pubs, they'll
head for higher ground.
(It's wimpy to attempt to ride out a category five storm? Foolish, yes.
Wimpy no)
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-03-09 05:40:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
It's missed Mackay - looks like Bundaburg is bang in it's sights though.
It's a full-on Cat 5 now. 300kph winds.
I doubt many will leave - if any. The people in the lowest-lying areas
will head for higher ground perhaps but that's about the extent of it.
This is Australia not Wimpsville USA.
Assuming you can run the blighters out of their warm little pubs, they'll
head for higher ground.
(It's wimpy to attempt to ride out a category five storm? Foolish, yes.
Wimpy no)
It's been hugely disapointing as it turns out.
The cyclone is potentially enormously destructive but frustratingly it has
run parallel to the coast and too far out to sea to cause any major
structural damage on land. Seems the best hope is for yet more floods.
Oh well.
conwaycaine
2009-03-09 20:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by conwaycaine
Assuming you can run the blighters out of their warm little pubs, they'll
head for higher ground.
(It's wimpy to attempt to ride out a category five storm? Foolish, yes.
Wimpy no)
It's been hugely disapointing as it turns out.
The cyclone is potentially enormously destructive but frustratingly it has
run parallel to the coast and too far out to sea to cause any major
structural damage on land. Seems the best hope is for yet more floods.
Oh well.
Don't despair.
Perhaps there will be a horror show on late TV tonight.
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