Discussion:
Fuck the us OF a and all the merKins
(too old to reply)
Scottish Patriot
2004-11-03 16:44:01 UTC
Permalink
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
THE Old Man
2004-11-04 00:15:40 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:44:01 GMT, "Scottish Patriot"
<***@thingymagig.com> wrote:

Get over it skittish scottish pat.

OR DON'T.
John Lamont
2004-11-04 07:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
T N Nurse
2004-11-04 11:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
***@ve hooks another..

BTW Scotland retained much of its sovereignty - law, education and
so forth. Also, the 'vote' was only amongst the Scots aristocrisy
who were hoping to make a few bob from access to the English markets.
Michilín
2004-11-04 14:29:42 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:58:32 +0000, T N Nurse
Post by T N Nurse
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
BTW Scotland retained much of its sovereignty - law, education and
so forth. Also, the 'vote' was only amongst the Scots aristocrisy
who were hoping to make a few bob from access to the English markets.
I think that's a classist point of view - the commissioners knew only
too well that without access to the English and colonial markets
Scotland was doomed to be another Ireland; a rural, resource-selling
backwater. It still is a backwater, but at least the best of its
people were able to escape overseas and create the British Empire,
before becoming the commercial leadership in many countries and
despite the stupidity of England in losing its greatest possession,
America, which was even more of a jewel than India.


Michilín
Jackie Mulheron
2004-11-04 22:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michilín
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 11:58:32 +0000, T N Nurse
Post by T N Nurse
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
BTW Scotland retained much of its sovereignty - law, education and
so forth. Also, the 'vote' was only amongst the Scots aristocrisy
who were hoping to make a few bob from access to the English markets.
I think that's a classist point of view - the commissioners knew only
too well that without access to the English and colonial markets
Scotland was doomed to be another Ireland; a rural, resource-selling
backwater. It still is a backwater,
So the union wasn't very successful then.

but at least the best of its
Post by Michilín
people were able to escape overseas
They had to "escape"? So the Union couln't have been that good for Scotland
then.
Post by Michilín
and create the British Empire,
Fraid that badge really goes to Disraeli.
Post by Michilín
before becoming the commercial leadership in many countries
Butn not their own strangely. Wonder why?
Post by Michilín
and despite the stupidity of England in losing its greatest possession,
America, which was even more of a jewel than India.
How could that be the stupidity of the English since you said it was the
Scots who had created the Empire?
Mike MacKinnon
2004-11-04 15:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
A vote in 1706? Certainly wasn't a popular vote. Just remember, the
would be nouveau riche have no qualms about selling everyone down the
river. They'd sell their granny for a buck. They've been doing it all
through the ages and they'll do it again. Just like the priviliged few
did in 1706.

M
Michilín
2004-11-04 20:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike MacKinnon
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
A vote in 1706? Certainly wasn't a popular vote. Just remember, the
would be nouveau riche have no qualms about selling everyone down the
river. They'd sell their granny for a buck. They've been doing it all
through the ages and they'll do it again. Just like the priviliged few
did in 1706.
M
I think that's very unfair. William Paterson for one voted for the
Union because of his horror at the damage he had done to Scotland with
the Darien Scheme and his honest belief that a union with England
would allow Scotland access to the markets it was dying without and
helkp get it back on his feet. To the best of my knowledge he received
no compensation of any sort for his part in the negotiations, nor did
he seek any.

Without the Union, Scotland would have became the Lappland of Europe.

Back to the history books and less listening to those wildly
inaccurate Scottish pub nationalists!

Michilín
Jackie Mulheron
2004-11-04 22:31:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michilín
Post by Mike MacKinnon
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
A vote in 1706? Certainly wasn't a popular vote. Just remember, the
would be nouveau riche have no qualms about selling everyone down the
river. They'd sell their granny for a buck. They've been doing it all
through the ages and they'll do it again. Just like the priviliged few
did in 1706.
M
I think that's very unfair. William Paterson for one voted for the
Union because of his horror at the damage he had done to Scotland
Nothing to do with the lack of protection from their monarch then?
Post by Michilín
with the Darien Scheme and his honest belief that a union with England
would allow Scotland access to the markets it was dying without and
helkp get it back on his feet.
Or so he said - like much of the Squadrone Volante who were recompensed for
their votes. Unlike other investors.

Anyway how does a country get back on it'sn feet when it no longer really
exists as a country but just some "part" of a new one called "Great
Britain".

And why did it have to take that for access to markets. Why wasn't their
protective monarch allowing them such access to Crown colonies?
Post by Michilín
To the best of my knowledge he received no compensation of any sort for
his part in the negotiations,
nor did he seek any.
You don't think they gave out receipts do you - or returned favours.
Post by Michilín
Without the Union, Scotland would have became the Lappland of Europe.
And you base that statement on what evidence?

Tell me, what other country would we be like if we got independence
tomorrow?
Post by Michilín
Back to the history books and less listening to those wildly
inaccurate Scottish pub nationalists!
As opposed to the wildly inaccurate North British unionists with their third
world myths.
Mike MacKinnon
2004-11-09 09:01:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michilín
Post by Mike MacKinnon
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
A vote in 1706? Certainly wasn't a popular vote. Just remember, the
would be nouveau riche have no qualms about selling everyone down the
river. They'd sell their granny for a buck. They've been doing it all
through the ages and they'll do it again. Just like the priviliged few
did in 1706.
M
I think that's very unfair. William Paterson for one voted for the
Union because of his horror at the damage he had done to Scotland with
the Darien Scheme and his honest belief that a union with England
would allow Scotland access to the markets it was dying without and
helkp get it back on his feet. To the best of my knowledge he received
no compensation of any sort for his part in the negotiations, nor did
he seek any.
Without the Union, Scotland would have became the Lappland of Europe.
Back to the history books and less listening to those wildly
inaccurate Scottish pub nationalists!
Michilín
What pub nationalists? True, the country was nearly bankrupt, but it
was also being squeezed by that country south of the border in order
to ensure the vote. Don't forget who our enemies were!

The Darien Scheme was a case in point. A foolhardy attempt at creating
a colony, doomed from the start and destroyed by the *nglish and
Spanish.

Also, the people who could vote at that time were bribed by the likes
of Daniel Defoe in order to ensure the vote. (what a parcel o rogues
etc....) I agree that for a while, the union was good for Scotland,
but tell me this, if Scotland was so poor and close to bankruptcy, why
did *ngland want the union? And don't tell me they were being
altruistic.

If you've read your Smout, you'll know that the mobs took over the
city of Edinburgh when the news broke of the union. No democratic vote
in those days. If there was, do you think the union would've happened?

M
Lachie
2004-11-09 10:52:31 UTC
Permalink
sgrìobh Mike MacKinnon
Post by Mike MacKinnon
Post by Michilín
Post by Mike MacKinnon
Post by John Lamont
Post by Scottish Patriot
They vote for all out war - just as Germans voted for hitler.
Just as Scotland voted to give up it's sovreignty to England without a fight?
A vote in 1706? Certainly wasn't a popular vote. Just remember, the
would be nouveau riche have no qualms about selling everyone down the
river. They'd sell their granny for a buck. They've been doing it all
through the ages and they'll do it again. Just like the priviliged few
did in 1706.
M
I think that's very unfair. William Paterson for one voted for the
Union because of his horror at the damage he had done to Scotland with
the Darien Scheme and his honest belief that a union with England
would allow Scotland access to the markets it was dying without and
helkp get it back on his feet. To the best of my knowledge he received
no compensation of any sort for his part in the negotiations, nor did
he seek any.
Without the Union, Scotland would have became the Lappland of Europe.
Back to the history books and less listening to those wildly
inaccurate Scottish pub nationalists!
Michilín
What pub nationalists? True, the country was nearly bankrupt, but it
was also being squeezed by that country south of the border in order
to ensure the vote. Don't forget who our enemies were!
The Darien Scheme was a case in point. A foolhardy attempt at creating
a colony, doomed from the start and destroyed by the *nglish and
Spanish.
The idea was altruistic and deserved a lot better. However, doomed to
failure.
Post by Mike MacKinnon
Also, the people who could vote at that time were bribed by the likes
of Daniel Defoe in order to ensure the vote. (what a parcel o rogues
etc....) I agree that for a while, the union was good for Scotland,
but tell me this, if Scotland was so poor and close to bankruptcy, why
did *ngland want the union? And don't tell me they were being
altruistic.
No they were not being altruistic, they could not concentrate on
building up a commercial empire with us unruly Scots diverting their
attention every time the French or whoever else told us to jump. If you
had us running around like naughty children, how were the English
supposed to concentrate on India or the West Indies?
Post by Mike MacKinnon
If you've read your Smout, you'll know that the mobs took over the
city of Edinburgh when the news broke of the union. No democratic vote
in those days. If there was, do you think the union would've happened?
No, most probably not.
--
Lachie Macquarie,
Bod an Deamhan--smaoineachadh miannach.
The Phantom Piper
2004-11-09 11:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike MacKinnon
What pub nationalists? True, the country was nearly bankrupt, but it
was also being squeezed by that country south of the border in order
to ensure the vote. Don't forget who our enemies were!
See my post Above re the troops camped out on the Tweed...
Post by Mike MacKinnon
The Darien Scheme was a case in point. A foolhardy attempt at
creating a colony, doomed from the start and destroyed by the
*nglish and Spanish.
Principally by the Einglisch. Nigel Tranter did his homework
and has written about how it was sabotaged.
Post by Mike MacKinnon
I agree that for a while, the union was good for Scotland,
I bloody well don't! That is similar to saying: "My deal with Satan
was all right - for a while..." One must consider both the Long Term
as well as the Short Term consequences of such pacts.
Post by Mike MacKinnon
if Scotland was so poor and close to bankruptcy, why did
*ngland want the union? And don't tell me they were being
altruistic.
I believe Craig Cockburn and Chic Mcgregor pegged the Net flow
of Capital and Resources southward at some 5,000,000,000 pounds
per year as of 1998. When one considers Water, Power, Taxes, etc.
Post by Mike MacKinnon
No democratic vote in those days. If there was, do you think
the union would've happened?
Precisely the question Jon Croft asked of the previous batch
of Britclones. And never got a satisfactory answer from them,
either.


Applauding Wildly,

---The Phantom Piper

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