Discussion:
Climategate - criminal charges may follow
(too old to reply)
naebad
2009-12-01 20:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM

Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."

It all started when an alleged whistleblower from the UK's Hadley
Centre
leaked e-mails detailing how temperature data was being forged to
prove
alleged "manmade global warming." Lord Christopher Monckton, a noted
"climate skeptic," says the actions were criminal and should be
prosecuted.

"The Hadley-CRU temperature data set is simply a joke. It has no
scientific
data whatsoever," he asserts. "It's simply made up; it's just
nonsense.

Monckton notes that the information was available under the UK's
Freedom of
Information Act, and accuses the Hadley Centre of conspiring with the
Interesting that Piper,AWS and co have been silent on this matter. Not
so much as a squeek out of them.
It's not their fault of course - they like most of the world were
duped. A simple apology would be in order however for calling us all
Rightards if I apologise for calling all of you Leftards!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit (CRU) to destroy the
data
and e-mails before the public got a hold of it.

"They conspired together and with other people to destroy Freedom of
Information Act data which they knew had been requested and they knew
had
been validly requested," states Monckton.

"That is a serious criminal offense [which] carries a very large
fine," he
continues. "There are scales of one to five for fines, and this one is
a
five which I think at the moment is at least £10,000 -- and if you
don't pay
it you go to prison."

Monckton argues that the criminal offenses go beyond the Freedom of
Information Act, that they are crimes against science itself. He notes
that
temperature data sets from the Hadley Centre and CRU are used to
calibrate
NASA satellites that are in turn used to track global temperatures.
naebad
2009-12-01 20:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Should read as follows -

On Dec 2, 9:14 am, naebad <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
Piper,AWS and co have been silent on this matter. Not
so much as a squeek out of them.
It's not their fault of course - they like most of the world were
duped. A simple apology would be in order however for calling us all
Rightards if I apologise for calling all of you Leftards!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM

Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."

It all started when an alleged whistleblower from the UK's Hadley
Centre
leaked e-mails detailing how temperature data was being forged to
prove
alleged "manmade global warming." Lord Christopher Monckton, a noted
"climate skeptic," says the actions were criminal and should be
prosecuted.

"The Hadley-CRU temperature data set is simply a joke. It has no
scientific
data whatsoever," he asserts. "It's simply made up; it's just
nonsense.

Monckton notes that the information was available under the UK's
Freedom of
Information Act, and accuses the Hadley Centre of conspiring with the

University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit (CRU) to destroy the
data
and e-mails before the public got a hold of it.

"They conspired together and with other people to destroy Freedom of
Information Act data which they knew had been requested and they knew
had
been validly requested," states Monckton.

"That is a serious criminal offense [which] carries a very large
fine," he
continues. "There are scales of one to five for fines, and this one is
a
five which I think at the moment is at least £10,000 -- and if you
don't pay
it you go to prison."

Monckton argues that the criminal offenses go beyond the Freedom of
Information Act, that they are crimes against science itself. He notes
that
temperature data sets from the Hadley Centre and CRU are used to
calibrate
NASA satellites that are in turn used to track global temperatur
The Phantom Piper
2009-12-02 05:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by naebad
Should read as follows -
Piper,AWS and co have been silent on this matter. Not
so much as a squeek out of them.
It's not their fault of course - they like most of the world were
duped. A simple apology would be in order however for calling us all
Rightards if I apologise for calling all of you Leftards!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apology accepted Hardy. I promise never to be such a prat again. I see
that the guy in charge has stood down from the climate place in
England.

The Phantom Piper
Scotty
2009-12-01 23:21:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 12:14:10 -0800 (PST), naebad <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

For those who might be interested. Top posted to save your time:

Vindication is nice but revenge is sweeter. These guys have been condemned
by their own hand. Other scams by the greens (for want of a better name):
the banning of DDT, millions of kids dead per year, subsequently lifted.
The Montreal Protocol to save us all from skin cancer, 20 years later the
hole is still there. And now Man-Made climate warming is exposed.

http://www.climate-skeptic.com/2009/11/dangers-of-a-monoculture-reactions-to-the-hadley-emails.html

"this is like the Catholic Church enforcing a banned books list and then
claiming that everything in print supports the Church’s position."

"For years, with the media’s active participation, criticism of the
mainstream scientific position on global warming has been painted as
somehow outside the bounds of reasonable discourse. Skeptics are called
deniers, (even in these hallowed halls) with the intent to equate them with
those who deny the Holocaust. At every turn, global warming activists with
the help of the media, have tried to make it uncomfortable, even
impossible, to criticize the science of catastrophic man-made global
warming. In the extreme, this has degenerated into outright threats.

NASA’s James Hansen has called for trials of climate skeptics in 2008 for
"high crimes against humanity". Environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
lashed out at skeptics of 2007 declaring, "This is treason. And we need to
start treating them as traitors". In 2009, RFK, Jr. also called coal
companies "criminal enterprises" and declared CEO’s "should be in jail for
all of eternity".

In June 2009, former Clinton Administration official Joe Romm defended a
comment on his Climate Progress website warning skeptics would be strangled
in their beds. "An entire generation will soon be ready to strangle you and
your kind while you sleep in your beds", stated the remarks, which Romm
defended by calling them "not a threat, but a prediction."

In 2006, the eco-magazine Grist called for Nuremberg-Style trials for
skeptics. In 2008, Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki called for
government leaders skeptical of global warming to be thrown "into jail". In
2007, The Weather Channel’s climate expert called for withholding
certification of skeptical meteorologists".

From the comments:
"In short, when researchers report that the climate is getting warmer,
there is still no good answer to the question Warmer than what?"

"My children get schooled every day about how the world is coming to an end
(so do all of yours). When I explain to them that its not true and that
these folks don’t really know as much as they say they do about the planet,
they look at me like Im some kind of goof. The teachers take off points if
the kids don’t get that the planet is about to burst into flames. The
ridicule is subtle but persistent that Al Gores vision is the future and
you must learn it.

If you can’t see the greater scope of just how dangerous and criminal this
behavior is, you're a fool".


Original URL added:
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=791202
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
It all started when an alleged whistleblower from the UK's Hadley
Centre leaked e-mails detailing how temperature data was being forged to
prove alleged "manmade global warming." Lord Christopher Monckton, a noted
"climate skeptic," says the actions were criminal and should be prosecuted.
"The Hadley-CRU temperature data set is simply a joke. It has no
scientific data whatsoever," he asserts. "It's simply made up; it's just
nonsense.
Monckton notes that the information was available under the UK's
Freedom of Information Act, and accuses the Hadley Centre of conspiring with the
<snipped to restore the original>
Post by naebad
University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit (CRU) to destroy the
data and e-mails before the public got a hold of it.
"They conspired together and with other people to destroy Freedom of
Information Act data which they knew had been requested and they knew
had been validly requested," states Monckton.
"That is a serious criminal offense [which] carries a very large
fine," he continues. "There are scales of one to five for fines, and this one is
a five which I think at the moment is at least £10,000 -- and if you
don't pay it you go to prison."
Monckton argues that the criminal offenses go beyond the Freedom of
Information Act, that they are crimes against science itself. He notes
that temperature data sets from the Hadley Centre and CRU are used to
calibrate NASA satellites that are in turn used to track global temperatures.
Dom
2009-12-03 14:43:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
 Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]

When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
Scotty
2009-12-03 17:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
 Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came down
on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.

But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-12-04 08:43:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came down
on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen e-mails
by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.

I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for the
machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and defamation of
character.
Meanwhile the temperatures continue to rise.
Scotty
2009-12-04 14:42:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
snip
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen e-mails
by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
Tut, tut all you like, it's not a pretty picture.
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for the
machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and defamation of
character.
Meanwhile the temperatures continue to rise.
You might be right, but how would we know? THAT is, in my mind, the crime.

I wish I could say that the modifications to the temp record was "done in
good faith" on a "best effort" basis except that one of the email exchanges
says, "to hide the decline"!

We are surrounded by evidence that we are not anywhere near the Medieval
Warm Period temps of the Viking era, when Greenland was green and arable
and GOOD times. For example in today's postings La N posted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8393952.stm

The article says that the shoreline has retreated 100 meters which we can
confirm because we also know that the Glaciers haven't melted yet. Roll on
the good times, unfortunately it seems as if we are actually cooling, else
why would they be eager to hide the decline? Damn!

Another example from the emails: they were trying to bridge a gap in the
record and decided to fill it with tree ring data from four trees in
Siberia, they had 11 (I think) similar trees to choose from, why only use
four of them.

Not forgetting the skulduggery of getting publication editors fired and
boycotting others, and thwarting the peer review process, not nice guys and
zero credibility!

Another, not forgetting that there is zero evidence that, if there is
warming, that it is due to, not just to CO2 but MANMADE CO2 which means
that there is NOTHING we can do to contain the "increase" in temp. And yet
these guys are insisting that we throw hundreds of billions (with a B) of
dollars at the "problem" that we can do nothing about,

I've said to you before that we should reduce the pollution but not with
this kind of crap. My Dad always said never lie, the truth will out
eventually.

It also puzzled me why the people who were bleating the loudest about
excessive carbon use simaltaneously rejected the only zero carbon, baseload
generation available, they obviously didn't think that not reducing carbon
use was a risk, it just didn't compute.

Bah, Humbug.
--
Trust is a commodity that you can only sell once.
Séimí mac Liam
2009-12-05 01:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came
down on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen
e-mails by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for
the machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and
defamation of character.
Meanwhile the temperatures continue to rise.
http://tinyurl.com/y9jvgc4
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Bryn Fraser
2009-12-05 08:09:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came
down on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen
e-mails by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for
the machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and
defamation of character.
Meanwhile the temperatures continue to rise.
http://tinyurl.com/y9jvgc4
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
From The Times December 5, 2009

Met Office to re-examine 160 years of climate dataBen Webster,
Environment Editor


(Graham Crouch)
Scientists measure the fast-reducing Rathong glacier in the Indian
state of Sikkim, near the Nepalese border
The Met Office plans to re-examine 160 years of temperature data after
admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made global
warming has been shattered by leaked e-mails.

The new analysis of the data will take three years, meaning that the
Met Office will not be able to state with absolute confidence the
extent of the warming trend until the end of 2012.

The Met Office database is one of three main sources of temperature
data analysis on which the UN’s main climate change science body
relies for its assessment that global warming is a serious danger to
the world. This assessment is the basis for next week’s climate change
talks in Copenhagen aimed at cutting CO2 emissions.

The Government is attempting to stop the Met Office from carrying out
the re-examination, arguing that it would be seized upon by climate
change sceptics.


The Met Office works closely with the University of East Anglia’s
Climatic Research Unit (CRU), which is being investigated after e-
mails written by its director, Phil Jones, appeared to show an attempt
to manipulate temperature data and block alternative scientific views.
[..]

Bryn
Séimí mac Liam
2009-12-05 09:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryn Fraser
innews:GKednd80LYIyVoXWnZ2dnUVZ8vWd
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
On Thu, 3 Dec 2009 06:43:51 -0800 (PST), Dom
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that
is ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he
came down on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few
stolen e-mails by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise
for the machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and
defamation of character.
Meanwhile the temperatures continue to rise.
http://tinyurl.com/y9jvgc4
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
From The Times December 5, 2009
Met Office to re-examine 160 years of climate dataBen Webster,
Environment Editor
(Graham Crouch)
Scientists measure the fast-reducing Rathong glacier in the Indian
state of Sikkim, near the Nepalese border
The Met Office plans to re-examine 160 years of temperature data after
admitting that public confidence in the science on man-made global
warming has been shattered by leaked e-mails.
The new analysis of the data will take three years, meaning that the
Met Office will not be able to state with absolute confidence the
extent of the warming trend until the end of 2012.
The Met Office database is one of three main sources of temperature
data analysis on which the UN’s main climate change science body
relies for its assessment that global warming is a serious danger to
the world. This assessment is the basis for next week’s climate change
talks in Copenhagen aimed at cutting CO2 emissions.
The Government is attempting to stop the Met Office from carrying out
the re-examination, arguing that it would be seized upon by climate
change sceptics.
The Met Office works closely with the University of East Anglia’s
Climatic Research Unit (CRU), which is being investigated after e-
mails written by its director, Phil Jones, appeared to show an attempt
to manipulate temperature data and block alternative scientific views.
[..]
Bryn
And the Indians are saying that the Himalayan glaciers have pretty much
stopped shinking.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
The Phantom Piper
2009-12-05 10:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
And the Indians are saying that the Himalayan
glaciers have pretty much stopped shinking.
What are the Africans saying?

Loading Image...


Reading "The Stones Of Kilimanjaro,"

The Phantom Piper
Séimí mac Liam
2009-12-05 10:12:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Phantom Piper
http://www.soulisfree.com/i
According to Kaser et al ( 2004, Int’l J of Climatology) the shrinking of
the Kilimanjaro glacer is not due to warming but the peculiar geography of
the mountain and reduced moisture at mid-troposphere.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-12-05 15:41:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Phantom Piper
http://www.soulisfree.com/i
According to Kaser et al ( 2004, Int'l J of Climatology) the shrinking of
the Kilimanjaro glacer is not due to warming but the peculiar geography of
the mountain and reduced moisture at mid-troposphere.
And here we go yet again.

According to a new study led by Professor Lonnie Thompson, from Ohio State
University and pubished in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy
of Sciences a couple of weeks ago the vanishing snow was "most likely due to
global warming" though they did add that: "..changes in cloudiness and
precipitation may have also played a smaller, less
important role, especially in recent decades.."



I can't find the original research papers online but below are two
reasonable summations of it from respected newspapers.



"...THE snows capping Mt Kilimanjaro, Africa's tallest peak, are shrinking
rapidly and could vanish altogether in 20 years, most likely due to global
warming, a US study said.

The ice sheet that capped Kilimanjaro in 1912 was 85 per cent smaller by
2007, and since 2000 the existing ice sheet has shrunk by 26 per cent, the
paleoclimatologists said.

The findings point to the rise in global temperatures as the most likely
cause of the ice loss.

Changes in cloudiness and precipitation may have also played a smaller, less
important role, especially in recent decades, they added.

"This is the first time researchers have calculated the volume of ice lost
from the mountain's ice fields,'' study co-author Lonnie Thompson said.

Mr Thompson is the professor of Earth Sciences at Ohio State University.

"If you look at the percentage of volume lost since 2000 versus the
percentage of area lost as the ice fields shrink, the numbers are very
close,'' he said in the study published in the journal Proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences.

While the yearly loss of the mountain glaciers was most apparent from the
retreat of their margins, Mr Thompson said an equally troubling effect was
the thinning of the ice fields from the surface.

The summits of both the Northern and Southern Ice Fields atop Kilimanjaro
have thinned by 1.9m) and 5.1m respectively.

The smaller Furtwangler Glacier, which was melting and water-saturated in
2000 when it was drilled, has thinned as much as 50 per cent between 2000
and 2009.

"It has lost half of its thickness,'' Mr Thompson said. "In the future,
there will be a year when Furtwangler is present and by the next year, it
will have disappeared.

"The whole thing will be gone.''

The scientists said they found no evidence of sustained melting anywhere
else in the ice core samples they extracted, which date back 11,700 years.

They said their findings show that current climate conditions over Mt
Kilimanjaro were unique over the last 11 millennia...."


_______________________________________________

Just for a bit of balance here's another reference to the same report from a
Tanzanian source which includes some extra detail:

"...It is not -- as some climate experts had been saying -- the result of
local issues such as the cutting down of forests and greater agricultural
production at the base of the mountain.

Scientists now believe that all the snow at the top of the mountain will be
gone within two decades.

They say that snow at the top of Mount Kenya could also be about to
disappear.

The report says that since 1912, 85 per cent of Mount Kilimanajro's glacier
has disappeared and that 26 per cent has gone since 2000 alone.

The primary cause of the melting is rising global temperatures, although
scientists acknowledge that changes in cloudiness and snowfall may also play
a role.
They also point out that even periods of intense drought, including one
which lasted 300 years, did not cause the present degree of melting.

The study is based primarily on photographs taken over the past 100 years.

They show that the 12 sq km of ice coverage in 1912 has been reduced to less
than two square kilometres by 2007.

However, the scientists have also drilled down to the rock beneath the ice
and extracted samples showing the pattern of freezing and melting over the
past 12,000 years.
This proved that the most extensive melting had taken place in the past 40
years.

Scientists say that the melting of Mount Kilimanjaro is part of a trend of
glacial retreat across Africa.

They add that melting is also occurring on Mount Kenya and in the Rwenzori
mountains on the western side of Uganda.

The melting could be devastating for local people and wildlife, which depend
on its runoff waters.

Britain's Met Office has predicted that glacial retreats worldwide could
lead to a 20 per cent fall in global agricultural productivity.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200911090364.html



So I hope that helps to reduce another little bit of confusion for you
Seimi.
HardySpicer
2009-12-05 10:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Phantom Piper
Post by Séimí mac Liam
And the Indians are saying that the Himalayan
glaciers have pretty much stopped shinking.
What are the Africans saying?
http://www.soulisfree.com/images/07/June/tanzania.jpg
Reading "The Stones Of Kilimanjaro,"
The Phantom Piper
Look, whatever the truth of the matter - and I admit it could go
either way, there is no doubt that the main thing that has suffered is
the publics faith in Science.
If people can go around fiddling results and getting away with it then
there is no hope. Personally I think we do need to do something about
polution, and think carefully about renewable energy where possible.
As for this carbon trading scam however, it is just that. A method
(politically motivated) for getting money out of richer countries and
giving it to poorer countries under the guise of global warming. In
fact a lot of that money will be stolen by the middle men no doubt -
the traders. It will become like the stock exchange. Besides, the idea
is that rich countries can go on polluting as long as they pay off to
the poorer ones!
Hardly ecological now is it. Gues who really pays though - yes - you
and me.


Hardy
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-12-05 13:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
And the Indians are saying that the Himalayan glaciers have pretty much
stopped shinking.
And which 'Indians' might that be?

Can you point me to the scientific study paper that led you to believe this?
Or are you talking about that one particular man when you say 'The Indians'.
The FACT is 90% of the world's glaciers are in retreat, including the
Himalayan.

The report 'Witnessing change: Glaciers in the Indian Himalayas' to which
this article refers and that I'm sure you, like me, must have read was
released only a few weeks ago.
The full report is a huge PDF and I can't be arsed wasting yet more time on
another classic denialist canard but this is one of dozens of references to
it:
And os the endless game of the anti-science conspiracy kooks inventing crap
and the scientists fefuting it goes on, and on, and on.....




"..South Asian countries including Bangladesh will face climate catastrophe
shortly as Himalayan glaciers are melting rapidly, apprehended scientists of
World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) and Birla Institute of Technology (BIT).

Launching a report yesterday titled 'Witnessing change: Glaciers in the
Indian Himalayas' they also said that small glaciers are melting quickly and
many of those are already vanished.

They said glaciers have been receding continuously and significantly.

"The Gangotri glacier has been receding since the last 'Little Ice Age',
which ended in the 19th century. The tributary glaciers have also shrunk and
some of them have even got separated from the main trunk of the glacier.
This fact is evident by systematic studies going on since 1935 on the
movement of the glacier snout, and by the presence of recessional features
such as the terminal and lateral moraines (GSI, 2001)," they said at the
congress of International Federation of Environmental Journalists (IFEJ) .

"In the past century, the retreat rate of the glacier had shown a rising
trend. It has been observed by glaciologists that the snout of the Gangotri
glacier has retreated by about two km in the last 100 years," said scientist
Dr Rajesh Kumar of BIT.

"The science of climate change is complex as it is not only about
temperature variations, but also the impact of local environmental factors;
non-climate stressors play an equally critical role. The ecologically
fragile Himalayan ecosystems harbour a diverse range of flora and fauna.
Moreover, a range of ecological services generated by the Himalayan
ecosystems support the well-being of communities in the mountains and
floodplains. Changes in these will result in immediate long-terms impacts
and requires development of appropriate adaptation responses," he added.

The report revealed that being more close to the Tropic of Cancer, the
Himalayan glaciers are receiving more heat than the Arctic and temperate
climate mountain glaciers, and they have become very sensitive to the rising
temperature or climate variability both at regional and global levels.

"Some of the studies carried out in the Indian Himalayas clearly point out
an increase in glacial melting. For instance, the Baspa basin of Himachal
Pradesh has shown an increase in the winter stream flow by 75 per cent as
compared to the rate in 1966. This is in tandem with the rise in average
winter temperatures in the area, thus illustrating the impacts of global
warming in the form of increased snow ablation, which in turn has augmented
the stream flow."

The study feared that glacial retreat could pose the most far-reaching
challenge in the Himalayan region. "The dynamics of monsoon are influenced
by Himalayan system and they act as a reservoir to sustaining agriculture,
providing freshwater and groundwater recharge, and is home to a unique
ecosystem with many endemic species."

"Adaptation to climate change, therefore, requires not just local action but
also trans-boundary cooperative arrangements. Future efforts in building the
resilience of the local community and the ecosystems should take into
account a concerted and integrated approach," it said.

Shirish Sinha of WWF said, "There is an urgent need by communities,
scientists and policymakers to take a closer look at the linkages between
scientific research, policy interventions and the larger understanding of
using resource conservation technologies and practices for promoting
societal benefits."
Adam Whyte-Settlar
2009-12-05 14:01:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
They said glaciers have been receding continuously and significantly.
And while I'm at it:

Here's a graph of the Global Glacier Mass Balance of the 180 odd 'key'
glaciers that are being continously monitored worldwide.
Loading Image...

And here's another of the cumulative mass balance curves for the mean of all
glaciers and 30 'reference' glaciers from the WGMS
Loading Image...


I hope this helps to reduce your confusion on this issue.
HardySpicer
2009-12-05 10:08:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came down
on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen e-mails
by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for the
machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and defamation of
character.
Meanwhile the temperatures continue to rise.
Arse wipe has clearly not read the emails...Typical denialist of the
truth.
The truth is that the temp last century rose by 1 degree C and nothing
this century so far.


Hardy
HardySpicer
2009-12-05 10:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came down
on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen e-mails
by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for the
machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and defamation of
character.
In fact the prof at the centre of this scandal has already stood down.
Scotty
2009-12-05 15:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by HardySpicer
Post by Adam Whyte-Settlar
Post by Scotty
Post by Dom
Post by naebad
Global-warming data sets 'simply made up'
Pete Chagnon - OneNewsNow - 11/30/2009 10:50:00 AM
Criminal charges are being pursued in what is being dubbed as
"ClimateGate."
[snip]
When this story broke, I immediately thought of Cyril L. Burt, the
British psychologist many of whose publications were based on
falsified data. Then I thought of all the flimflam "research" that is
ballyhooed by pseudo-educators.
I seem to recall that the main criticism of Burt was because he came down
on the nature side of the nature/nurture debate.
Don't forget that the biggest fraudster of all was the founder of
psychology, Sigmund Freud.
But in the area of science Climategate is up there....
"Climategate!"
LOL
How desperate can the deniers get. Misrepresentation of a few stolen e-mails
by a few right-wing hacks and it's
'Climategate'. Dear oh dear.
I'm surprised at you falling for yet more of this crap. More noise for the
machine. I hope there *are* prosecutions - for libel and defamation of
character.
In fact the prof at the centre of this scandal has already stood down.
No, temporary administrative leave while the Uni investigates

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