Discussion:
Saxon Gold
(too old to reply)
Glenallan
2009-09-24 09:50:31 UTC
Permalink
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html

The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.

G
--
La N
2009-09-24 13:32:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group. What a great find. Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)

- nilita
Bryn Fraser
2009-09-24 19:01:43 UTC
Permalink
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group.  What a great find.  Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
Not and found it again..

Bryn
Glenallan
2009-09-24 19:41:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group. What a great find. Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
As it happens I am descended from
Ecfrith, King of Mercia 787-796ad,
through his son Alkin the Northumbrian,
the progenitor of the Clan MacFarlane,
the only Saxon Clan in the Highlands.
I am assured of the veracity of this
by Wikipedia's "Clan MacFarlane" article.

I beleive an American who descends from
Alkin has provided the authenticating
material, albeit no Ecfrith tombstone
has ever beeen found either in Mercia
or the USA

Taking his word for it, I therefore
await the divvying up of our Staffordshire
Treasure Trove. Traditionally, the Clan MacFarlane
does not have a Chief or Chieftain, but rather,
has a 'Captain'.

G
--
La N
2009-09-24 19:56:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group. What a great find. Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
As it happens I am descended from
Ecfrith, King of Mercia 787-796ad,
through his son Alkin the Northumbrian,
the progenitor of the Clan MacFarlane,
the only Saxon Clan in the Highlands.
I am assured of the veracity of this
by Wikipedia's "Clan MacFarlane" article.
I beleive an American who descends from
Alkin has provided the authenticating
material, albeit no Ecfrith tombstone
has ever beeen found either in Mercia
or the USA
Taking his word for it, I therefore
await the divvying up of our Staffordshire
Treasure Trove. Traditionally, the Clan MacFarlane
does not have a Chief or Chieftain, but rather,
has a 'Captain'.
I have a question that I hope doesn't drag back the riff raff.

But, is "Alkin" related to "Akins"?

- NILITA
Glenallan
2009-09-24 20:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group. What a great find. Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
As it happens I am descended from
Ecfrith, King of Mercia 787-796ad,
through his son Alkin the Northumbrian,
the progenitor of the Clan MacFarlane,
the only Saxon Clan in the Highlands.
I am assured of the veracity of this
by Wikipedia's "Clan MacFarlane" article.
I beleive an American who descends from
Alkin has provided the authenticating
material, albeit no Ecfrith tombstone
has ever beeen found either in Mercia
or the USA
Taking his word for it, I therefore
await the divvying up of our Staffordshire
Treasure Trove. Traditionally, the Clan MacFarlane
does not have a Chief or Chieftain, but rather,
has a 'Captain'.
I have a question that I hope doesn't drag back the riff raff.
But, is "Alkin" related to "Akins"?
- NILITA
I rather doubt it.
The Akins family, or Clan as we may infer, is
not in any straight forward way related to the line
of Ecfrith. My family is so much a part of Scotland,
Mercia, Eire and the ancient Kingdom of Ulster
as to be of its very essence.

Indeed there is neither man nor woman, horse nor donkey,
goat nor sheep who cannot claim to be of our Line.
So much so the Alkin has in family lore, been
titled Alkin the Ubiquitous.

We have no need of tombstones.
We are everywhere.

Ask any sheep.

G
--
Val
2009-09-25 02:21:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group.  What a great find.  Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
As it happens I am descended from
Ecfrith, King of Mercia 787-796ad,
through his son Alkin the Northumbrian,
the progenitor of the Clan MacFarlane,
the only Saxon Clan in the Highlands.
I am assured of the veracity of this
by Wikipedia's "Clan MacFarlane" article.
I beleive an American who descends from
Alkin has provided the authenticating
material, albeit no Ecfrith tombstone
has ever beeen found either in Mercia
or the USA
Taking his word for it, I therefore
await the divvying up of our Staffordshire
Treasure Trove. Traditionally, the Clan MacFarlane
does not have a Chief or Chieftain, but rather,
has a 'Captain'.
I have a question that I hope doesn't drag back the riff raff.
But, is "Alkin" related to "Akins"?
- NILITA
I rather doubt it.
The Akins family, or Clan as we may infer, is
not in any straight forward way related to the line
of Ecfrith. My family is so much a part of Scotland,
Mercia, Eire and the ancient Kingdom of Ulster
as to be of its very essence.
Indeed there is neither man nor woman, horse nor donkey,
goat nor sheep who cannot claim to be of our Line.
So much so the Alkin has in family lore, been
titled Alkin the Ubiquitous.
We have no need of tombstones.
We are everywhere.
Ask any sheep.
G
--
HEER! HEER!
Happy
2009-09-24 23:46:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group. What a great find. Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
How about Oak Island just off Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia.
Pirate treasure, maybe Captain Kidd, maybe Bluebeard, maybe Johnny Depp.
And maybe the Holy Grail.
Many explorations, much money spent, live's lost, but no treasure found yet.
Apparently FDRoosevelt was a supporter of some exploration.
If you've ever lived in the Canadian Maritimes, you know the mystery of Oak
Island.

Cheers!
La N
2009-09-24 23:50:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Happy
Post by La N
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
I saw this in another group. What a great find. Nobody ever buried
anything like that in Canada ... ;)
- nilita
How about Oak Island just off Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia.
Pirate treasure, maybe Captain Kidd, maybe Bluebeard, maybe Johnny
Depp. And maybe the Holy Grail.
Many explorations, much money spent, live's lost, but no treasure
found yet. Apparently FDRoosevelt was a supporter of some exploration.
If you've ever lived in the Canadian Maritimes, you know the mystery
of Oak Island.
That's right! ISTR people with supposed treasure maps would travel there in
hopes of digging in the right patch of dirt and being able to spend the rest
of their lives in luxury.

- nilita
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-24 19:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discove
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/

By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Glenallan
2009-09-24 19:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discove
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
I do believe you have been reading my mind,
but in this case I believe that I may have
the 'bona-fides', not to mention the
concrete evidence. :-)
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-24 19:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-
discove
Post by Glenallan
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
I do believe you have been reading my mind,
but in this case I believe that I may have
the 'bona-fides', not to mention the
concrete evidence. :-)
Without a doubt, speaking as a jeweller, this is very fine workmanship.
Especially the garnet inlays.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
conwaycaine
2009-09-25 00:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
Post by Glenallan
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-
discove
Post by Glenallan
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
I do believe you have been reading my mind,
but in this case I believe that I may have
the 'bona-fides', not to mention the
concrete evidence. :-)
Without a doubt, speaking as a jeweller, this is very fine workmanship.
Especially the garnet inlays.
And a damn site better than the ham handed Sassenach could have produced.
conwaycaine
2009-09-25 00:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discove
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
The artifacts sure looks Celtic to me.
But then, what do I know?
Val
2009-09-25 03:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discove
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
saw the pix finally-BBC has some:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8272370.stm

I am inclined to agree, certainly look more Celtic than otherwise-esp.
the mosaics, and the animal designs.
Mik M'Haffie
2009-09-25 09:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Fucking extraordinary.
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.
Allan
2009-09-25 11:11:36 UTC
Permalink
"Mik M'Haffie" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:abb56fe2-cd36-4ea3-af70-***@f10g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...


Fucking extraordinary.
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.

*****************************

It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo find
was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later Anglo-Saxon
poetry were proof enough that these were no backward barbarians.

Allan
conwaycaine
2009-09-25 12:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo find
was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later Anglo-Saxon
poetry were proof enough that these were no backward barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made this
particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
Allan
2009-09-25 18:27:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo find
was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made this
particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are beleived to
be home crafted and in similar style to those found in Scandanavia etc. Like
I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians by others were far from it.
Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly artisitc too.

Allan
conwaycaine
2009-09-25 21:38:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made this
particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are beleived
to be home crafted and in similar style to those found in Scandanavia etc.
Like I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians by others were far
from it. Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly artisitc too.
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic culture
survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
Robert Peffers
2009-09-25 22:36:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made
this particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are beleived
to be home crafted and in similar style to those found in Scandanavia
etc. Like I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians by others were
far from it. Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly artisitc too.
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic culture
survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
The main problem seemed to be that they did not have a written culture.
conwaycaine
2009-09-26 14:22:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Peffers
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made
this particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are beleived
to be home crafted and in similar style to those found in Scandanavia
etc. Like I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians by others
were far from it. Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly artisitc
too.
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic culture
survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
The main problem seemed to be that they did not have a written culture.
And that I did not know.
No runes or pictographs or such??
Allan
2009-09-26 15:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Robert Peffers
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made
this particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are
beleived to be home crafted and in similar style to those found in
Scandanavia etc. Like I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians
by others were far from it. Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly
artisitc too.
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic culture
survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
The main problem seemed to be that they did not have a written culture.
And that I did not know.
No runes or pictographs or such??
There is very little surviving. Mostly inscriptions suggesting P-Celtic
though being influenced heavily by Gaelic and there also seems to be some
use of Ogham. There are also about two dozen stones with as yet undeciphered
inscriptions apart from making out the odd name. Scottish historians seem to
be settled on the idea that the Picts, or at least the bulk of them, were
P-Celtic speakers like their neighbours over the Firth of Forth in southern
Scotland. The strange inscriptions lead some to think that there may also
have been a remnant population speaking a pre-Celtic or even
pre-Indo-European language. Others suggest it was the remnant of an older
language used only for religious purposes etc - like Latin nowadys perhaps.
In truth we don't know so it is all speculation.

Allan
conwaycaine
2009-09-26 18:34:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Robert Peffers
Post by conwaycaine
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic
culture survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
The main problem seemed to be that they did not have a written culture.
And that I did not know.
No runes or pictographs or such??
There is very little surviving. Mostly inscriptions suggesting P-Celtic
though being influenced heavily by Gaelic and there also seems to be some
use of Ogham. There are also about two dozen stones with as yet
undeciphered inscriptions apart from making out the odd name. Scottish
historians seem to be settled on the idea that the Picts, or at least the
bulk of them, were P-Celtic speakers like their neighbours over the Firth
of Forth in southern Scotland. The strange inscriptions lead some to think
that there may also have been a remnant population speaking a pre-Celtic
or even pre-Indo-European language. Others suggest it was the remnant of
an older language used only for religious purposes etc - like Latin
nowadys perhaps. In truth we don't know so it is all speculation.
And possibly beyond ever knowing.
Thanks, Allan.
Robert Peffers
2009-09-26 23:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Robert Peffers
Post by conwaycaine
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic
culture survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
The main problem seemed to be that they did not have a written culture.
And that I did not know.
No runes or pictographs or such??
There is very little surviving. Mostly inscriptions suggesting P-Celtic
though being influenced heavily by Gaelic and there also seems to be some
use of Ogham. There are also about two dozen stones with as yet
undeciphered inscriptions apart from making out the odd name. Scottish
historians seem to be settled on the idea that the Picts, or at least the
bulk of them, were P-Celtic speakers like their neighbours over the Firth
of Forth in southern Scotland. The strange inscriptions lead some to
think that there may also have been a remnant population speaking a
pre-Celtic or even pre-Indo-European language. Others suggest it was the
remnant of an older language used only for religious purposes etc - like
Latin nowadys perhaps. In truth we don't know so it is all speculation.
And possibly beyond ever knowing.
Thanks, Allan.
To this day the Gaelic culture is word of mouth. The old guys will recite
the family lines back to the year dot and nothing is written down.
Val
2009-09-26 23:24:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Peffers
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Robert Peffers
Post by conwaycaine
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic
culture survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
The main problem seemed to be that they did not have a written culture.
And that I did not know.
No runes or pictographs or such??
There is very little surviving. Mostly inscriptions suggesting P-Celtic
though being influenced heavily by Gaelic and there also seems to be some
use of Ogham. There are also about two dozen stones with as yet
undeciphered inscriptions apart from making out the odd name. Scottish
historians seem to be settled on the idea that the Picts, or at least the
bulk of them, were P-Celtic speakers like their neighbours over the Firth
of Forth in southern Scotland. The strange inscriptions lead some to
think that there may also have been a remnant population speaking a
pre-Celtic or even pre-Indo-European language. Others suggest it was the
remnant of an older language used only for religious purposes etc - like
Latin nowadys perhaps. In truth we don't know so it is all speculation.
And possibly beyond ever knowing.
Thanks, Allan.
To this day the Gaelic culture is word of mouth. The old guys will recite
the family lines back to the year dot and nothing is written down.
and doesnt THAT drive us ex-pat ex-pat genie nuts even nuttier!
S Viemeister
2009-09-27 00:14:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Peffers
To this day the Gaelic culture is word of mouth. The old guys will recite
the family lines back to the year dot and nothing is written down.
But the old guys are dying off, and Gaelic is spoken by fewer and fewer
people. Some of the old stories and the genealogies are being
translated and recorded, but much will soon be lost.
La N
2009-09-27 00:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by S Viemeister
Post by Robert Peffers
To this day the Gaelic culture is word of mouth. The old guys will
recite the family lines back to the year dot and nothing is written
down.
But the old guys are dying off, and Gaelic is spoken by fewer and
fewer people. Some of the old stories and the genealogies are being
translated and recorded, but much will soon be lost.
Reminds me of Native American traditions ... fewer young people are hearing
and passing on the stories of their elders.
conwaycaine
2009-09-27 15:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by S Viemeister
Post by Robert Peffers
To this day the Gaelic culture is word of mouth. The old guys will
recite the family lines back to the year dot and nothing is written
down.
But the old guys are dying off, and Gaelic is spoken by fewer and
fewer people. Some of the old stories and the genealogies are being
translated and recorded, but much will soon be lost.
Reminds me of Native American traditions ... fewer young people are
hearing and passing on the stories of their elders.
The Cherokee have been turning heaven and earth to recapture their lost
lore.
Fortunately, one of the unintended effects of scattering the Cherokee all
over North America was to create small pockets of Cherokee culture here and
there.
The lore could be compared and like items examined.
Unfortunately most of the songs and dances have been forever lost.
.
conwaycaine
2009-09-27 15:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Peffers
To this day the Gaelic culture is word of mouth. The old guys will recite
the family lines back to the year dot and nothing is written down.
Very true, Auld Bob.
Which brings such as Akins of that Ilk to fill in the gaps
(May God preserve us all)
Allan
2009-09-26 07:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made
this particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are beleived
to be home crafted and in similar style to those found in Scandanavia
etc. Like I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians by others were
far from it. Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly artisitc too.
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic culture
survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
It mainly survives in the artwork adorning the numerous Pictish stones.

Allan
conwaycaine
2009-09-26 14:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
Post by conwaycaine
Post by Allan
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Plundering poor Irishmen and Welshmen of their treasures hardly made
this particular bunch of Germanic freebooters artisans.
The Sutton Hoo treasures came from all over Europe but many are beleived
to be home crafted and in similar style to those found in Scandanavia
etc. Like I say many peoples often dismissed as barbarians by others
were far from it. Likewise the Picts seem to have been highly artisitc
too.
And to this day I wonder why so little information on the Pictic culture
survives.
(Unless of course they have made some breakthroughs I haven't heard about)
It mainly survives in the artwork adorning the numerous Pictish stones.
I remember some discussions here on whether or no the Picts were Celts.
Fifeshire Floozie
2009-09-25 15:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allan
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Pictures of some of the artifacts from Sutton Hoo ...
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlights_search_results.aspx?searchText=Sutton+Hoo

Just in case, http://preview.tinyurl.com/y9oabav
La N
2009-09-25 15:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by Allan
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Pictures of some of the artifacts from Sutton Hoo ...
http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlights_search_results.aspx?searchText=Sutton+Hoo
Just in case, http://preview.tinyurl.com/y9oabav
Including a gorgeous purse lid. Adam? Do any of *your* purses have such
gorgeous clasps???
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-25 16:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mik M'Haffie
..
Fucking extraordinary.
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.
*****************************
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Allan
From the time of Vercigetorix the Romans called the people living on one
side the Rhine Germans and those on the other were Gauls or Celts.
Modern people with the mindset of SAOTI have tried to imply that Celts
and Germans were different people genetically, linguistically,
culturally. Do they think that the tribes living either side of the
river for thousands of years never traded, intermarried, stole each
other's women or interacted culturally and artistically? They also
convieniently forget that both Hallstatt and La Tene are on altogether
the wrong side of the river.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Allan
2009-09-25 18:35:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Mik M'Haffie
..
Fucking extraordinary.
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'. That or this isn't a Saxon find at all. One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.
*****************************
It isn't the first such find though just the biggest. The Sutton Hoo
find was extraordinary too and finds like this as well as the later
Anglo-Saxon poetry were proof enough that these were no backward
barbarians.
Allan
From the time of Vercigetorix the Romans called the people living on one
side the Rhine Germans and those on the other were Gauls or Celts.
Modern people with the mindset of SAOTI have tried to imply that Celts
and Germans were different people genetically, linguistically,
culturally. Do they think that the tribes living either side of the
river for thousands of years never traded, intermarried, stole each
other's women or interacted culturally and artistically? They also
convieniently forget that both Hallstatt and La Tene are on altogether
the wrong side of the river.
People often try to make it out that it was a Celt versus Germanic thing in
Britain too which is nonsesne. When Penda of Mercia attacked Northumbria
(who were themsleves as mixture of AS and Celtic peoples) he did so with the
help of the Welsh. After their initial hostiltity the Northumbrians were
often allied with the Picts against the Scotti. The Britons were frequently
attacked by the Irish and Picts as well as the ASs. The Norse and Danes seem
to have fought with everyone. Bede wrote that the Northumbrians were on good
terms with everyone apart from the Britons who they could never be
reconciled with. I imagine all these peoples would be much more like each
other than some would like to think.

Allan

Allan
Mik M'Haffie
2009-09-26 01:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Sure, one needs only take a glance at the Northumbrian Golden Age of
the 7th-8th Centuries, to see the benefits Celtic influence had on
receptive Germanic culture. And just because the gold and jewelry was
made in Ireland or Wales, doesn't mean the Anglo-Saxons plundered it;
they just as easily could have traded for it. After all, didn't Alfred
the Great sent his sons to Celtic monasteries to get their education?
And the settlers of Galloway were the Gall-Gael, a hybrid of Celts and
Norse, weren't they?

I sometimes wonder what our culture would have been like if the Roman
Catholics had not interfered with the Celtic monasteries and left
Western Europe to evolve under Celtic Christianity. There was no
institutional hierarchy, no doctrine of sexual guilt-complex, far more
respect for women and the belief-system was more suited for ancient
Western European traditions. And the standards of education were
excellent.

Damn! (hitting my fist on the desk, which then hurts my hand)
chicmac
2009-09-25 15:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mik M'Haffie
Fucking extraordinary.
Post by Séimí mac Liam
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Damn extraordinary! So much for Dark Ages Barbarian 'backwardness.'
I'm sure the metalwork was done in a Celtic shop, probably Irish.
After all, these people had been practicing metallurgy for over a
thousand years by then.
There is an industry in English academia to recategorise everything
once thought Celtic as Anglo-Saxon.

The Sutton Hoo horde was at one time ascribed almost entirely to
Viking, Celtic and Roman origins with very little designated A-S.
Over the years that has shifted markedly in the A-S direction.

Various illuminated manuscripts which were once considered Celtic in
origin have in recent years acquired English origin theories, even the
Book of Kells (theory - made in Northumbria- taken to Iona and thence
to Kells Abbey). These theories are still not accepted as the most
likely in international academia and I doubt they evwer will be, but
they are slowly but surely working their way up the league table.

Likewise for hitherto designated Celtic metalwork, e.g. the
Hunterstone brooch and the Tara brooch.

The term 'Hiberno-Saxon' art has been coined (how long before it
becomes 'Saxon-Hibernic'?). Scotland doesn't get a look in as
usual ;).

There is even an attempt to usurp Pictish stone art for the A-S cause.

And of course, Celtic legend, in the form of the Arthurian Cycle, has
long been Anglicised.

All of this flies in the face of contemporary accounts which have the
invading A-S as being illiterate, pagan savages whose only claim to
cultural influence (aside from de-christianising parts of Eastern
Britain for a short while) was the gutteral Germanic language they
spoke. That they were rendered literate, Christianised and generally
civilised by the indigenous Romano-Celtic people of Britain.

It is all part of the need for an origin mythos for the English people
which excludes any Celtic influence.

Another example of this is the willingness to ascribe their
Christianisation to St Augustine even though after his very short-
lived tenure in Britain the Southern A-S 'he' converted, reverted back
to paganism as soon as he left. They were finally Christianised by
Celtic Monks and those who had been converted by Celtic monks from the
North.

Another example is the ability to ignore the influence on the
development and even possibly existence of English from the North
(Scotland and Northumbria).
The Phantom Piper
2009-09-25 16:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by chicmac
There is an industry in English academia to recategorise
everything once thought Celtic as Anglo-Saxon.
...
These theories are still not accepted as the most likely
in international academia and I doubt they ever will be,
but they are slowly but surely working their way up the
league table.
Oh but there's *absolutely* No Such Thing as Historical
Revisionism going on! How *dare* you impute to our
Fellow Brits the need to denigrate other cultures whilst
aggrandising their own?
Post by chicmac
It is all part of the need for an origin mythos for the
English people which excludes any Celtic influence.
As I said back in The Day, there's a reason why
there is no soc.culture.english...


Not At All Surprised,

The Phantom Piper
Mik M'Haffie
2009-09-26 00:51:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by chicmac
Another example is the ability to ignore the influence on the
development and even possibly existence of English from the North
(Scotland and Northumbria).
Apparently, the existence of a Western European people that is
sophisticated, but with no direct Roman or Germanic influence, is for
some people, still hard to bear.

Ever seen Terry Jones' program, The Primitive Celts? If you can spare
an hour of your time, it is worth watching.

Here is the link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2906225428089212064#
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-26 02:32:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mik M'Haffie
Post by chicmac
Another example is the ability to ignore the influence on the
development and even possibly existence of English from the North
(Scotland and Northumbria).
Apparently, the existence of a Western European people that is
sophisticated, but with no direct Roman or Germanic influence, is for
some people, still hard to bear.
Ever seen Terry Jones' program, The Primitive Celts? If you can spare
an hour of your time, it is worth watching.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2906225428089212064#
Thanks for the link.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Mik M'Haffie
2009-09-26 07:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Thanks for the link.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Yes sir. Glad to post it.
Bryn Fraser
2009-09-25 19:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discove
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Live in hope...
Its really out of context.
Hit by a plough at some time by the looks of it just to help.

Lots of Merovingian stuff in that, and some copies.
I am going bugeyed looking at the photos.. The bracelet!!!!

Bryn
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-25 20:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryn Fraser
innews:aK2dnRtHuNsC3SbXnZ2dnUVZ8lmdnZ
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco
ve
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Live in hope...
Its really out of context.
Hit by a plough at some time by the looks of it just to help.
Lots of Merovingian stuff in that, and some copies.
I am going bugeyed looking at the photos.. The bracelet!!!!
Bryn
http://horvathdp.googlepages.com/Jewelry.pdf

This is seventh century stuff, some Merovingian, some from Sutton Hoo.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Val
2009-09-25 21:21:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Bryn Fraser
innews:aK2dnRtHuNsC3SbXnZ2dnUVZ8lmdnZ
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco
ve
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Live in hope...
Its really out of context.
Hit by a plough at some time by the looks of it just to help.
Lots of Merovingian stuff in that, and some copies.
I am going bugeyed looking at the photos.. The bracelet!!!!
Bryn
http://horvathdp.googlepages.com/Jewelry.pdf
This is seventh century stuff, some Merovingian, some from Sutton Hoo.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
and for this also..denkink yu!
Bryn Fraser
2009-09-25 21:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Bryn Fraser
innews:aK2dnRtHuNsC3SbXnZ2dnUVZ8lmdnZ
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco
ve
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  One
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Live in hope...
Its really out of context.
Hit by a plough at some time by the looks of it just to help.
Lots of Merovingian stuff in that, and some copies.
I am going bugeyed looking at the photos.. The bracelet!!!!
Bryn
http://horvathdp.googlepages.com/Jewelry.pdf
This is seventh century stuff, some Merovingian, some from Sutton Hoo.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Causes me serious pangs of skill envy.

Bryn
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-26 01:21:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bryn Fraser
innews:7557dcfb-1fad-47
Post by Bryn Fraser
innews:aK2dnRtHuNsC3SbXnZ2dnUVZ8lmdnZ
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-di
sco ve
red-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
By the style of some of these objects, SAOTI will need to do some
redefining of 'Celtic'.  That or this isn't a Saxon find at all.  
One
Post by Bryn Fraser
does hope this was handled using proper archeological methods.
Live in hope...
Its really out of context.
Hit by a plough at some time by the looks of it just to help.
Lots of Merovingian stuff in that, and some copies.
I am going bugeyed looking at the photos.. The bracelet!!!!
Bryn
http://horvathdp.googlepages.com/Jewelry.pdf
This is seventh century stuff, some Merovingian, some from Sutton Hoo.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Causes me serious pangs of skill envy.
Bryn
Well beyond my skill set, as well. At least the metal work.
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Allan
2009-09-24 19:49:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-discovered-6323e80.html
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
My father in-law was an archaeologist based at Norwich Castle Museum. He
knew the woman who was in charge of the Sutton Hoo exhibition in Suffolk and
as a family we got a private tour round the site etc. It was great to be
there and have uninterrupted access to the expert and artifacts.

Allan
Val
2009-09-25 02:20:34 UTC
Permalink
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
La N
2009-09-25 02:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?

- nilita
Fifeshire Floozie
2009-09-25 04:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
La N
2009-09-25 04:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown does with
it. Put in on display somewhere?
Charles Ellson
2009-09-25 06:19:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown does with
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.

The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
La N
2009-09-25 06:25:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Interesting. I often read of controversies involving ownership of booty
found in sunken ships.

- nilita
Jeffrey Hamilton
2009-09-25 18:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which
might not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or
similar place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Interesting. I often read of controversies involving ownership of
booty found in sunken ships.
- nilita
*Spain* usually lays claim, to most of those. :)

cheers.....Jeff
Charles Ellson
2009-09-25 21:34:07 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:01:44 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton"
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by La N
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which
might not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or
similar place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Interesting. I often read of controversies involving ownership of
booty found in sunken ships.
- nilita
*Spain* usually lays claim, to most of those. :)
IIRC sunken ships can involve complications involved with sovereign
ownership when a naval vessel is involved.
Jeffrey Hamilton
2009-09-26 20:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 14:01:44 -0400, "Jeffrey Hamilton"
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by La N
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:40:17 GMT, "La N"
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision
yet then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which
might not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or
similar place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Interesting. I often read of controversies involving ownership of
booty found in sunken ships.
- nilita
*Spain* usually lays claim, to most of those. :)
IIRC sunken ships can involve complications involved with sovereign
ownership when a naval vessel is involved.
Oh your quite correct of course, but if it's a treasure ship, it was usually
Spanish and they (Spain) have a habit of laying claim to them, no matter how
far off shore, or how deep.
My :) was a hint I was *tongue-in-cheek* (TIC)

cheers.....Jeff
Fifeshire Floozie
2009-09-25 14:54:53 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown does with
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8272370.stm

The caption under one of the pictures (a millefiori stud, where a
special glasswork technique - an early Anglo-Saxon speciality - has
created a black and white mosaic within a gem.) reads ...

"The vast hoard will officially became the property of the Queen to
ensure it does not leave the UK." (
The Phantom Piper
2009-09-25 16:14:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
"The vast hoard will officially became the property
of the Queen to ensure it does not leave the UK."
How public-spirited of her!

(Noblesse Oblige, I'm sure.)


God, Do *Something* To Her...,

The Phantom Piper
Charles Ellson
2009-09-25 21:37:49 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 09:14:16 -0700 (PDT), The Phantom Piper
Post by The Phantom Piper
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
"The vast hoard will officially became the property
of the Queen to ensure it does not leave the UK."
How public-spirited of her!
(Noblesse Oblige, I'm sure.)
God, Do *Something* To Her...,
Acksherly that's the Beeb failing to understand the distinction
between the personal entity of the monarch (= Mrs Betty Windsor) and
the Crown (for most practical purposes = "the people").
The Phantom Piper
2009-09-26 04:16:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Acksherly that's the Beeb failing to understand
the distinction between the personal entity of the
monarch (= Mrs Betty Windsor) and the Crown
(for most practical purposes = "the people").
Yes, I got that. Naetheless theres a quote from
Mark Twain regarding the majestic "We" being used
by Royalty and persons afflicted with Tapeworms.
Personally, I have difficulty distinguishing between
the two sorts of parasites...


Not Amused,

The Phantom Piper
Jeffrey Hamilton
2009-09-26 18:53:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Phantom Piper
Post by Charles Ellson
Acksherly that's the Beeb failing to understand
the distinction between the personal entity of the
monarch (= Mrs Betty Windsor) and the Crown
(for most practical purposes = "the people").
Yes, I got that. Naetheless theres a quote from
Mark Twain regarding the majestic "We" being used
by Royalty and persons afflicted with Tapeworms.
Personally, I have difficulty distinguishing between
the two sorts of parasites...
Not Amused,
Aren't we ?

Well, at least you didn't say *"my husband and I"* <G>

cheers.....Jeff
Post by The Phantom Piper
The Phantom Piper
Fifeshire Floozie
2009-09-25 15:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown does with
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Another caption reads, "Mr Herbert will have to split the value with
the owner of the farmland where it was discovered." Makes them rather
wealthy I'd reckon :)
Charles Ellson
2009-09-25 21:38:41 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:05:55 -0400, "Fifeshire Floozie"
Post by La N
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Another caption reads, "Mr Herbert will have to split the value with
the owner of the farmland where it was discovered." Makes them rather
wealthy I'd reckon :)
One of them anyway. Have you ever met a rich farmer ? ;-)
Fred J. McCall
2009-09-26 08:07:00 UTC
Permalink
Charles Ellson <***@ellson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:
:One of them anyway. Have you ever met a rich farmer ? ;-)
:

I knew a fair number of them when I was growing up.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
Fifeshire Floozie
2009-09-27 09:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:05:55 -0400, "Fifeshire Floozie"
Post by La N
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure
trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Another caption reads, "Mr Herbert will have to split the value with
the owner of the farmland where it was discovered." Makes them
rather
wealthy I'd reckon :)
One of them anyway. Have you ever met a rich farmer ? ;-)
My best friend's Father was well-off. He owned a small holding
(Mossgiel) along the Wemyss Road and grew mushrooms and lettuce.
http://www.firstfoot.com/cat/food-drink/1107.htm
Nebulous
2009-09-27 11:17:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Ellson
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:05:55 -0400, "Fifeshire Floozie"
Post by La N
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Another caption reads, "Mr Herbert will have to split the value with
the owner of the farmland where it was discovered." Makes them rather
wealthy I'd reckon :)
One of them anyway. Have you ever met a rich farmer ? ;-)
Hamish Watt, who was an SNP MP, and who is the father of Maureen Watt a
current MSP, was also a farmer. He wrote a column for our local paper the
Press and Journal.

I remember him writing:-

'The best way to make a small fortune from farming is to start with a big
one.'

I'm sure I have met plenty rich farmers, but none who would admit to it.
Which was probably what you meant.

Neb
Charles Ellson
2009-09-27 20:35:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nebulous
Post by Charles Ellson
On Fri, 25 Sep 2009 11:05:55 -0400, "Fifeshire Floozie"
Post by La N
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown
does with
Post by Charles Ellson
Post by La N
it. Put in on display somewhere?
The Crown does whatever the Crown wishes to do with treasure trove;
items are not claimed by the Crown in every case and those which might
not be deemed important enough to be put into a museum or similar
place are often left with the finder.
The rules in Scotland are also different from *ngland:-
http://www.treasuretrovescotland.co.uk/
Another caption reads, "Mr Herbert will have to split the value with
the owner of the farmland where it was discovered." Makes them rather
wealthy I'd reckon :)
One of them anyway. Have you ever met a rich farmer ? ;-)
Hamish Watt, who was an SNP MP, and who is the father of Maureen Watt a
current MSP, was also a farmer. He wrote a column for our local paper the
Press and Journal.
I remember him writing:-
'The best way to make a small fortune from farming is to start with a big
one.'
I'm sure I have met plenty rich farmers, but none who would admit to it.
Which was probably what you meant.
A lot of the time it seems to be a case of possessing valuable assets
in the form of land and machinery but having damn all spare in the
bank, as found with a few stately home owners.

Robert Peffers
2009-09-25 22:26:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Fifeshire Floozie
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
I would have thought that.
I caught the tail end of the report where it says what the Crown does with
it. Put in on display somewhere?
Yup! If it comes out of the ground the crown gets first crack at it and they
have the option to class it as Treasure Trove.
From the COD -treasure trove n.
1. Law - treasure of unknown ownership which is found hidden in the ground
etc. and is declared the property of the Crown.
In most cases of smaller value the crown waives the claim. This is NOT small
value - draw your own conclusions. Now I'm working from memory and it tells
me the crown has, in the past, also declared a find Treasure Trove but also
given the finder a reasonably large reward.
conwaycaine
2009-09-25 12:55:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
An article in our paper said the hoard would be sold to a museum and the
proceeds divided between the two farmers what discovered the artifacts.
(With a fair dollop to the government, no doubt)
La N
2009-09-25 14:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by conwaycaine
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
An article in our paper said the hoard would be sold to a museum and
the proceeds divided between the two farmers what discovered the
artifacts. (With a fair dollop to the government, no doubt)
I wondered if the finders might get a little "souvenir".
conwaycaine
2009-09-25 15:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by La N
Post by conwaycaine
Post by La N
Post by Val
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
I just heard on CBC Radio that the booty belongs to the Crown?
An article in our paper said the hoard would be sold to a museum and
the proceeds divided between the two farmers what discovered the
artifacts. (With a fair dollop to the government, no doubt)
I wondered if the finders might get a little "souvenir".
Well, that would be the two farmers what are splitting the sales price (less
governmental fees)
Séimí mac Liam
2009-09-25 15:54:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Val
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-
disco...
Post by Val
Post by Glenallan
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
Val
2009-09-25 21:19:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Val
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-
disco...
Post by Val
Post by Glenallan
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England.  See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the  court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
OOOOOOOO! sum more-thanks!
Jeffrey Hamilton
2009-09-26 20:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Val
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Val
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-
disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
OOOOOOOO! sum more-thanks!
Take it to The Hoard page and there are 25 pages of photographs showing 500
pieces. See it here:
Amazing stuff !

http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/artefacts/gallery/?set=72157622378376316

cheers.....Jeff
Val
2009-09-26 23:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeffrey Hamilton
Post by Val
Post by Séimí mac Liam
Post by Val
Post by Glenallan
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090924/tuk-anglo-saxon-gold-hoard-
disco...
The Staffordshire Treasure trove, apparently will
redefine our perception of Saxon England. See above link.
G
--
saw a note on that in Explorator, coroner hadnt made decision yet
then. OOOOO! can hardly wait for pix!
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/
--
Saint Séimí mac Liam
Carriagemaker to the court of Queen Maeve
Prophet of The Great Tagger
Canonized December '99
OOOOOOOO! sum more-thanks!
Take it to The Hoard page and there are 25 pages of photographs showing 500
Amazing stuff !
http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/artefacts/gallery/?set=721576223...
  cheers.....Jeff
OMG! I am getting drunk on visuals!
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